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Cash
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PostSubject: Re: Ciao Lorenzo.   Sat Aug 29, 2009 8:37 pm

Lotito has been a fugazzi since day one, and no matter how he treated Lollo, it was Lotito who forced him (and so many others) out. Caxi, and some other members, seem to have forgotten that his treatment has forced many out of the club - and not only players, but also leaders and retired players who have refused Lazio despite Lazio being the team of their heart.

I prefer C1 over Lotito. It is easy to say so now, but the fundamental issue is that Lotito has been lying since the very first day, and obviously he has managed to covince plenty of people (some of them on this forum) that he is actually doing whats best for this club. Ridocolous!
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centrocampista
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PostSubject: Re: Ciao Lorenzo.   Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:00 pm

Caxi wrote:
centrocampista wrote:
Caxi wrote:
centrocampista wrote:
We have only had one rich owner so you didnīt do a great job of covering anything. Cragnotti performed wonders for Lazio and spent 200mil usd out of his own pocket - sure we accumulated debt but what big club doesnīt have debt?

This is the fundamental issue that every player contract, every decision Lotito makes comes back to. Even Lollo is going to get embroiled in this debate.

Lazio is a team with two league titles in an 110 year history (I know there's other trophies but they only seem to count when they need to prove a point) and we have attendance problems which leads to a problem of generating funds and then our 'laziale' leaves the club and it all gets worse and worse and so on and so forth.

Lazio was never in a position to sustain debt unlike the other 'big' clubs that you hint at. And therein lies the problem.

Losing Lollo definitely doesn't help matters but everyone from the president down to the tifosi has their part to play.

Lollo is gone; Lotito is still here; Lazio lives on.

I just want to point out some facts.

1. We had 40 000 sold season tickets at a much higher price then today during the Cragnotti era (not every season).
2. During CL 2001 we earned more then any other team except for the winners (bayern) - because people actually paid to see us play.

Itīs all about leadership and right now we have none and thatīs why our stars want to leave.

We were generating such sales at such prices and such revenue on a false economy and as a result, the company is in the hands of Lotito; but the club is still ours as a result.

Players like Lollo can take the club forward because the tifosi invest in them; they follow the player, they have a desire and a will to see them succeed and just because Lollo now wears a purple shirt doesn't change that for me. Lollo's departure is a blow; but let's see what happens to the likes of Tuia and Faraoni.

Uhm dude you are not making any sense.

What do you mean false economy? our debt of around 200mil euro is less then what Real Madrid had a year ago (267mil euro) and the bulk of our debt is taxrelated. When Cragnotti was active football was in a state of revolution and is now maturing (Iīm talking about the wage race). And just like Cash pointed out - I would rather enjoy Lazio play Serie C1 fussball then saluting Lotito.
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Giolazio
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PostSubject: Re: Ciao Lorenzo.   Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:16 pm

Imagine we had a Lotito thread? It would be over 10,000 pages long! cheers

Is everyone forgetting the fact that Lollo sucked last year??? I'm really not bothered he left, he wasn't that good. If he proves me wrong then fair play but I have alot to base my current opinion on.

There's absolutely no point in repeatedly arguing over the same subject again and again. People can justify their hatred (rightly so) for Lotito and others can point out the good (rightly so) that he has done.

At the end of the day there's nothing we can do, unless Centro gathers all the people he can find and storms the Olimpico and comes back with Lotito's head, then unfortunately for Lotito haters, he will still be presidente. All we can do is support la maglia and nothing else. Simple really.

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usampa
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PostSubject: Re: Ciao Lorenzo.   Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:53 am

Cash wrote:
In my eyes, he should have been given a new contract with an empty space for him to fill in years and amount of cash. But more than anything, he should have been given plenty of comments on how IMPORTANT he is to the clubī. And how much we believe in him for the future...

I think this was exactly his problem , everyone was praising him and his talent.Everyone treated him like the new captain , the new idol and so on.
And the boy just lost himself...It occurs frequently in football...
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El Weninho
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PostSubject: Re: Ciao Lorenzo.   Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:19 am

Ask Valon Behrami, Goran Pandev and Cristian Ledesma why they decided to leave Lazio.

Ask Rolando Bianchi what he thinks about being promised a transfer and then get shipped away.

Ask Matteo Sereni, Massimo Mutarelli, Guglielmo Stendardo and Goran Pandev why thy decided, or planned, to take legal actions against a club they countless of times said they respect and like to play for.

Ask Paolo Di Canio how it feels to receive a call, when you just signed a lucrative deal with Charlton, from a president asking you to play for practically no money at all. And then not being offered a new contract.

Ask Angelo Peruzzi how it feels to contribute a lot to a club and not be offered a job within it.

Ask Mimmo Caso how it feels to be sacked in live radio.

Ask Delio Rossi what he meant with his words on the last press conference and who they were directed to.

Ask Walter Sabatini, Carlo Osti, Guglielmo Acri and Gabriele Martino why Lazio has had four sport directors (five including Tare) since 2004.

Ask Volfango Patarca why he, after more then 20 years, decided to leave the youth section when Lotito took over.

Ask Felice Pulici, and the other old Lazio legends, why no one of them is working in the club these days.

Ask the club presidents why Lotito never manages to buy - but only sell - players within the national league.

Without putting any value or opinion to the list above, I can't say that I'm shocked Lorenzo said what he did.


Last edited by El Weninho on Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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Il Capitano
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PostSubject: Re: Ciao Lorenzo.   Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:45 am

centrocampista wrote:
I just want to point out some facts.

*yaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn*
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zoran
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PostSubject: Re: Ciao Lorenzo.   Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:46 am

i think that over 90% of laziofever members heard and start to watch Lazio cuz' the president Cragnotti...in his time he make Lazio to be near to clubs like Milan, Real Madrid,....

and one think about offering contracts by Lotito: - some say that he offer to Lorenzo and Pandev contract and they reject...- many members here i guess don't understand one think so ill try to make it simple example:

- If Lotito offer to "LazioS70"(nickname) a 5 year contract (10eur per week) to cut the Olimpico grass naked and sing some Jeniffer Lopez song..., and if he refuse the contract - does that mean that he dont like Lazio ?
so Lotito will say to the press "I offered to "LazioS70" 5 year contract and he reject, he don't like to work for Lazio".

do you all understand the point ?!?
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LazioS70
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PostSubject: Re: Ciao Lorenzo.   Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:27 am

I even know why you used especially my username in youre "breakthrough" statement. Youre an idiot. This comparison doesent fit here not a bit.
Just relax and hope youre idol goran leaves fast from Lazio.
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Ciao Lorenzo.   Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:32 pm

Just a few things:

@ centro: comparing Lazio to any other club is a difficult thing to do; comparing Lazio's debt to that of Real Madrid's is bizarre. Firstly, the king of Spain can bail out Real whereas I don't think a figure like Berlusconi can or even would bail out us (that is debatable though) but secondly, and most importantly, Lazio will never generate the revenue Real do. Soccer was in a bad state of affairs back then; you had bookmakers making Lazio the favourites for every European competition we entered and in reality, we underachieved according to their expectations. It's small things like that that lead to a false economy; false hopes, false expectation, surviving above your means. We are completely off topic here now but I thought I should clarify my opinion on that

@ Cash: I actually agree with you; when you look at a post like Weni's, there is clearly a problem. There is, however, little if nothing we can do. I'll take any criticism be it true or untrue but unfortunately, every time I ask for an alternative I am let down because there is none and there never was one. 5 years ago it was all very simple; Lotito or no Lazio and the majority of people chose the former. For sure, we have the right to complain and moan and desire a change but the harsh reality is, that's not going to happen. So I could login to LF every day and hope Lotito is gone and go crazy about his actions like a number of people do or I can try and play my part as a fan. For me, I choose the latter every time, it's a no-brainer.

What actually is frustrating is that from now on, every player who leaves can blame Lotito and still be held in high regard by the fans. It's an easy excuse now, too easy and on every occasion, it is going to generate debate and a conflict of views. However, it was the regime that needed a change and I'm willing to give the new regime a fair chance. I have to judge the regime because the president is going nowhere and we all have, roughly, the same opinion of him.
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Cash
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PostSubject: Re: Ciao Lorenzo.   Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:39 pm

Caxi:

When Lotito first arrived, he promised us many things. The first yéar we all supported him, from the simple supporter in Sweden to the leader of the Curva. But he lied to us, he fooled us and he has taken charge of a club that belonged to all of us. Now we can see the disastrous effects of having this little man in charge...

Else, just read Weninho's post again....
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Ciao Lorenzo.   Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:54 pm

Yes.
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Giolazio
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PostSubject: Re: Ciao Lorenzo.   Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:58 pm

Caxi wrote:
Yes.

That was a disappointing climax.... Very Happy

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centrocampista
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PostSubject: Re: Ciao Lorenzo.   Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:59 pm

Caxi wrote:
Just a few things:

@ centro: comparing Lazio to any other club is a difficult thing to do; comparing Lazio's debt to that of Real Madrid's is bizarre. Firstly, the king of Spain can bail out Real whereas I don't think a figure like Berlusconi can or even would bail out us (that is debatable though) but secondly, and most importantly, Lazio will never generate the revenue Real do. Soccer was in a bad state of affairs back then; you had bookmakers making Lazio the favourites for every European competition we entered and in reality, we underachieved according to their expectations. It's small things like that that lead to a false economy; false hopes, false expectation, surviving above your means. We are completely off topic here now but I thought I should clarify my opinion on that


Every team has debt - basta!

Roma are in debt and they where still in discussions over a takeover worth aprox 240mil euro (Lotito bought Lazio for 30mil euro).

The point is - we are bailed. We got a taxplan but since then no real investement has been made.
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Ciao Lorenzo.   Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:10 pm

Giolazio wrote:
Caxi wrote:
Yes.

That was a disappointing climax.... Very Happy

There's nothing else to say...still no alternatives, there are no alternatives and if there are, they are even more damaging than Lotito as hard as that can be to believe.

No point comparing ourselves to the Barcas or the Reals but what about potential alternatives? Millionaire takeovers? Newcastle had one, got relegated, Portsmouth had one, financial troubles, West Ham had one, financial troubles, Abramovich at Chelsea, can't buy players due to downfall in personal finance, Glazers transferred all debt of theirs into Manchester United PLC, Liverpool's millionaires couldn't get on, now have financial trouble and the list goes on and on and on and on.

Not trying to defend Lotito but suppose he is an egomaniac; doesn't he need to further the club to further his ego? Say he wants to make money out of Lazio...doesn't he need to actually make improvements in the club to do that?

The damage Cragnotti left behind was almost irrepairable, Lotito came along and repaired it and has now created more; we are self-destructing but we have been for decades and are still winning trophies. I don't like Lotito as much as the next guy for the same reasons as the nexy guy but there are no alternatives which makes this debate increasingly senseless.

The majority of us agree on what Lazio needs, what we are waiting on but sadly, it's not coming anytime soon.

That's my last post on this thread.
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Roman_Eagle
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PostSubject: Re: Ciao Lorenzo.   Sun Aug 30, 2009 4:55 pm

First of all before bashing Lotito ask yourselves do we have another option for a sponsor and president? cause right now I can't see any. So for better or worse we have one and we are stuck with him. Call me an idiot but it's better to support our president than to talk sh*t about him. Yes - he is not the best president we had or could have had - there is no doubt about that!

About LDS: Lotito did the right thing - we don't need him right now, we have a good quality RB and we have a good exp replacement - Scaloni plus Sivigla could play RB if needed. My guess about the situation is that- Lotito offered a contract to LDS but he refused it because he didn't get what he wanted but the real thing is you can't pay a big amount to a reserve player no matter how talented is he

About Pandev: Yes he is a great player and helped us a lot - no doubt! There were numerous news about Lotito offering a new contract but pandev still refused to sign. But Pandev indicated last year that this would be his last season here and IMO the simple reason he refused to sign is that he will be an unattractive player for the big clubs. Why? Well a player ho has just signed a 4-5 year deal is twice or three times more expensive than a player with 1 year remaining. Pandev just thought or was tipped not to sign and he will be bought by someone

About Ledesma: I think we all agree here that his agent is in the base of all the sh*t that happened. And if it wasn't for him Ledesma would have renewed long time ago!

Weninhno is surely right about no legend working in the club and the bad treatment of the players. But also don't forget Stendardo was benched because he had a fight with Rossi. No Lotito fault there! Plus Muta was also sidelined because Rossi didn't want him in the squad. And how is Lotito to blame about that? Lotito is a business man and anyone who doesn't fit in his plan is been removed from the club. We all know that he is in the club not because he loves Lazio but because he sees an opportunity to make money. Fine by me as longs as Lazio goes forward and Lazio does move forward.
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centrocampista
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PostSubject: Re: Ciao Lorenzo.   Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:09 pm

Roman_Eagle wrote:
First of all before bashing Lotito ask yourselves do we have another option for a sponsor and president? cause right now I can't see any. So for better or worse we have one and we are stuck with him. Call me an idiot but it's better to support our president than to talk sh*t about him. Yes - he is not the best president we had or could have had - there is no doubt about that!

1. How can you know that there is no one else? Maybe Lotito was approached and said he wanted 200mil euro for Lazio - do you know that hasnīt happened? No one wanted to take over a club with >200mil euro taxdebt in a country where the laws are arbitrary but that doesnīt mean no one wants to take over Lazio today.

2. Why is it better to support an idiot then to not support an idiot? why?

Roman_Eagle wrote:

About LDS: Lotito did the right thing - we don't need him right now, we have a good quality RB and we have a good exp replacement - Scaloni plus Sivigla could play RB if needed. My guess about the situation is that- Lotito offered a contract to LDS but he refused it because he didn't get what he wanted but the real thing is you can't pay a big amount to a reserve player no matter how talented is he

The main issue at hand is that talanted young players would rather call on art. 17 then fight for a place at Lazio. Maybe Lollo will grow up to be a great player - maybe not but Lotito is not the man to decide this since he has clearly no knowledge of football.

Roman_Eagle wrote:

About Pandev: Yes he is a great player and helped us a lot - no doubt! There were numerous news about Lotito offering a new contract but pandev still refused to sign. But Pandev indicated last year that this would be his last season here and IMO the simple reason he refused to sign is that he will be an unattractive player for the big clubs. Why? Well a player ho has just signed a 4-5 year deal is twice or three times more expensive than a player with 1 year remaining. Pandev just thought or was tipped not to sign and he will be bought by someone

Thanks for telling us monday comes before tuesday. Lotito could have approached Pandev 2 seasons ago with a real offer. Had Pandev refused it would have been the bench. Lotito didnīt want to do this because he thought a last minute offer would be accepted - now Lazio as a club has to suffer.

Roman_Eagle wrote:

About Ledesma: I think we all agree here that his agent is in the base of all the sh*t that happened. And if it wasn't for him Ledesma would have renewed long time ago!

No we can all agree that Lotito is the one to blame.

Roman_Eagle wrote:

Lotito is a business man and anyone who doesn't fit in his plan is been removed from the club. We all know that he is in the club not because he loves Lazio but because he sees an opportunity to make money. Fine by me as longs as Lazio goes forward and Lazio does move forward.

How can you call yourself Roman Eagle when Lotito is selling out the soul of Lazio under your very nose!! How many celebrationlaps can the capt of Roma run after a away derby before you react? how many true Laziale will be kicked out from the club before you react?? How can you accept someone who calls in mercenaries like Cruz instead of rewarding players like Pandev?

Lotito is a cancer.
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Jofo
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PostSubject: Re: Ciao Lorenzo.   Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:12 pm

And let me guess you are his cure.
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Roman_Eagle
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PostSubject: Re: Ciao Lorenzo.   Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:37 pm

@ centro

Lazio is a big team, right? Sooo can you tell me how many big teams changed owners without the press knowing nothing about it ? So my answer to how I now there is no one who wants to buy Lazio is that simply no one made it clear they want Lazio.

It's better to support the idiot cause it's better to stay united that's why. when there is another man in the spot light we will support him

and did you take into concideration that LDS simply moved out because he saw he had no chance of making the first 11 ? He had his cnahce when Oddo left and what happened? Nothing. Plus Lotito should not have a knowledge of football. That is why he hired a coach.

Pandev issue: offering Pandev a contract 2 years ago would have mean raising his salary and you know Lotito for the past years was trying to balance the costs and the profits. And using your words : how do you know Lotito never offered Pandev a contract ? And why you don't want accept that there is maybe an offer from another club and the catch is Pandev should not renew ?

and why is Lotito to blame once more for Ledesma? he made an offer to him....

Yes I do call myself Roman Eagle because I support Lazio. I love Lazio. and no one said I like the departure of LDS or any other player but Lotito is in charge now and he is doing what he thinks is better. It's better to sell LDS tnah to lose him for free right? It's better to sell Pandev than to lose him for free? Same with Ledesma.... which I think will stay because the whole situation with him was made by his agent

wake up and smell the coffee.. football is not what it was 20 years ago. now it's simply business. why did Man U sell Ronaldo? Why did Milan sell Kaka? No one is happy with the situation but Lotito is handling it at the moment
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Cash
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PostSubject: Re: Ciao Lorenzo.   Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:53 pm

Entertaining to see how these discussions develop. I know I was at fault (partially) this time, but naybe we should introduce some kind of rule stating how many times Lotito can be mentioned before a thread is closed Twisted Evil ;all threads seem to end up in a Lotito discussion...and we never really get anywhere...


Anyhow, I will scream "pezzo di merda" as long as he is in charge...

He will never be my president...
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Giolazio
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PostSubject: Re: Ciao Lorenzo.   Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:58 pm

Yeah good job Cash! Twisted Evil I think a more realistic rule would be that if a thread moved so far off topic then it will be locked.....

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Roman_Eagle
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PostSubject: Re: Ciao Lorenzo.   Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:43 pm

I'm sorry for being off-topic but somehow it's not right to blame Lotito for everything. Yes he is not perfect but sometimes he is not at fault... or we can blame him for the hunger in Somalia also?
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CaptainLazio
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PostSubject: Re: Ciao Lorenzo.   Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:13 pm

Roman_Eagle wrote:
I'm sorry for being off-topic but somehow it's not right to blame Lotito for everything. Yes he is not perfect but sometimes he is not at fault... or we can blame him for the hunger in Somalia also?

Yes why not blame him for that, we blame him for everything else... Some people just see lotito as a nobody but was singlehanded to blame for the survival of lazio... you guys shoud try to put on lotitos shoes and do his job... you would either fail or have same success as him...! Why do you spend all your time whining and complaining about lotito? Keep your head in the clouds and use your strenght in supporting the team...!
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centrocampista
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PostSubject: Re: Ciao Lorenzo.   Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:57 pm

Cash wrote:
Entertaining to see how these discussions develop. I know I was at fault (partially) this time, but naybe we should introduce some kind of rule stating how many times Lotito can be mentioned before a thread is closed Twisted Evil ;all threads seem to end up in a Lotito discussion...and we never really get anywhere...


Anyhow, I will scream "pezzo di merda" as long as he is in charge...

He will never be my president...

Amen!!
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centrocampista
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PostSubject: Re: Ciao Lorenzo.   Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:58 pm

Roman_Eagle wrote:
I'm sorry for being off-topic but somehow it's not right to blame Lotito for everything. Yes he is not perfect but sometimes he is not at fault... or we can blame him for the hunger in Somalia also?

Yeah or why not give him credit for inventing Penicillin.
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Giolazio
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PostSubject: Re: Ciao Lorenzo.   Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:07 pm

I think this topic is done.....Read the title of this thread please then think twice if this is right place for you to post. It is called 'Ciao Lorenzo'. No more Lotito chat in here, it's boring.

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