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Caput Mundi
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PostSubject: Re: Transfers and rumours 08 09 section 3   Tue Sep 01, 2009 1:31 am

I feel sorry for the players.

Their chances of having a great year and maybe even qualifying for CL are pretty much shot thanks to the incompetence of two directors.
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Cash
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PostSubject: Re: Transfers and rumours 08 09 section 3   Tue Sep 01, 2009 1:37 am

When a newcommer like Parma brings in Bojinov, Dzemaili, Zaccardo, Panucci, Mirante and Lanzafame, our mercato looks even more strange. How are we to compete in EL, and try to improve from last year in the league?
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Transfers and rumours 08 09 section 3   Tue Sep 01, 2009 1:40 am

Cash wrote:
Conn wrote:
This mercato was good, we didn't need more than we got.
We've just won two trophies, clearly we are already good enough.
We must all love and thank lotito because he saved us.

These are the three arguments that - even more than lotito - harmed Lazio. The newspapers and those fans who backed lotito are co-responsible with him, even more than shadow-sport-director Tare.

You scared me Conn...thought you had lost your mind...

Unfortunately, plenty of people seem to believe in what you just stated.

Am trying to avoid turning this thread to an anti-lotito thread as well...

I'm going to try and avoid it too so I'll tackle those three arguments instead.

With argument number one, I can't say I'm overly impressed with how the mercato has turned out but in terms of playing ability, all that has really happened is Cruz came into replace Goran who never left and Scaloni takes De Silvestri's place. In terms of quality, that is adequate. I would have thought consolidating a trophy winning side would count for something but unfortunately, many feel that isn't good enough. Sure, I'm frustrated we didn't bring in a centre back and a quality midfielder with age on his side but we spent 15.5 million more than came in. Nobody knows the budget so nobody can really criticise, just infer. I'm happy with the quality that did come in; furious that we didn't get more after all our efforts.

I don't think thanking and loving Lotito is correlated to anyone's opinion of the mercato; I'm just going to disregard that argument. That was 5 years ago, this is now. I'll judge this mercato next summer when we see the results on the pitch. Until then, I look forward to the season ahead with a new coach, fresh players and the same old presidente; let's face it, we all knew this is the way it would be 12 months ago. Ciao.
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PostSubject: Re: Transfers and rumours 08 09 section 3   Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:04 am

I'm with Caxi here, there's only one way to judge the summer transfers: results. I wish we would've picked up a good central defender just like everyone else, but if we have a good season, then I guess I really can't complain. Just gotta wait and see what happens.
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aDDi
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PostSubject: Re: Transfers and rumours 08 09 section 3   Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:21 am

Is the mercato over?
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Giolazio
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PostSubject: Re: Transfers and rumours 08 09 section 3   Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:27 am

aDDi wrote:
Is the mercato over?

Yes.

In

Mauro Zarate - Al Sadd £20m
Albano Bizzarri - Catania £0
Eliseu Pereira dos Santos - Malaga £1m
Matuzalem - Real Zaragoza £6m
Julio Cruz - Inter £0
Barreto


Out

Luciano Zauri - Sampdoria
Juan Pablo Carrizo - Real Zaragoza (loan)
Daniele Greco - Sorrento (loan)
Ivan Artipoli - Pescina
Alessandro Tuia - Monza (loan)
Alberto Quadri - Pescina (loan)
David Rozehnal - Hamburg 4.9m
Libor Kozak - Brescia (Loan)
Lorenzo De Silvestri - Fiorentina 5m
Correa

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El Weninho
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PostSubject: Re: Transfers and rumours 08 09 section 3   Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:53 am

Caxi wrote:
Cash wrote:
Conn wrote:
This mercato was good, we didn't need more than we got.
We've just won two trophies, clearly we are already good enough.
We must all love and thank lotito because he saved us.

These are the three arguments that - even more than lotito - harmed Lazio. The newspapers and those fans who backed lotito are co-responsible with him, even more than shadow-sport-director Tare.

You scared me Conn...thought you had lost your mind...

Unfortunately, plenty of people seem to believe in what you just stated.

Am trying to avoid turning this thread to an anti-lotito thread as well...

I'm going to try and avoid it too so I'll tackle those three arguments instead.

With argument number one, I can't say I'm overly impressed with how the mercato has turned out but in terms of playing ability, all that has really happened is Cruz came into replace Goran who never left and Scaloni takes De Silvestri's place. In terms of quality, that is adequate. I would have thought consolidating a trophy winning side would count for something but unfortunately, many feel that isn't good enough. Sure, I'm frustrated we didn't bring in a centre back and a quality midfielder with age on his side but we spent 15.5 million more than came in. Nobody knows the budget so nobody can really criticise, just infer. I'm happy with the quality that did come in; furious that we didn't get more after all our efforts.

I don't think thanking and loving Lotito is correlated to anyone's opinion of the mercato; I'm just going to disregard that argument. That was 5 years ago, this is now. I'll judge this mercato next summer when we see the results on the pitch. Until then, I look forward to the season ahead with a new coach, fresh players and the same old presidente; let's face it, we all knew this is the way it would be 12 months ago. Ciao.

The problem is that Lotito and Tare said all along that they were looking the bring in a central defender. Saying that in public means you're saying to the supporters that you have money to spend. So even if it's true we don't know the budget, we know for a fact (which also the last days of the mercato showed) that plenty of millions were avaliable for signing a defender.

I don't think anyone can deny that Lotito failed, and he failed badly. Going after Valdez just before the market is about to close proves he's kind of desperate. I've been trying to figure out for the last hours WHY he's saving all the negatations to the very last day. But I just can't find an answer. I guess that's normal when you only have one assistent working along with you during the mercato.

Personally I'm just dissappointed. Sad for the players and Ballardini. We had a great chance building something nice from these trophies and the hope they gave, but now we're just stuck in the middle. The squad has lost a lot of quality from last year. If we finish top 8 then we can thank our players for performing better then expected.

In addition: our squad is still way to big. In all honesty, I don't think Ballardini expected this when he signed the contract.
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Transfers and rumours 08 09 section 3   Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:00 am

True, I said that earlier Weni, it looked to me like we held on for too long on Canini and excuses were being made as early as last night but it is one signing out of quite a good few moves. As annoyed as I am, I'll still wait until next summer before judging this team.
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rockybalboa83
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PostSubject: Re: Transfers and rumours 08 09 section 3   Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:18 am

So did we sign Carlos Valdez or not???

Says on football italia that we did...
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Caput Mundi
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PostSubject: Re: Transfers and rumours 08 09 section 3   Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:27 am

No, we signed no-one and sold no-one.

All we did was loan Correa to Taranto.
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rockybalboa83
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PostSubject: Re: Transfers and rumours 08 09 section 3   Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:52 am

c. testa wrote:
No, we signed no-one and sold no-one.

All we did was loan Correa to Taranto.

hahaha its mid morning here but i think a may have a scotch on the rocks...

so going publically saying that we were in the market for a class defender and we end up getting no one...

Ahh dear...well my comments would be :

- I am glad Ledesma has stayed..Let's hope that he can play an important role for us because he needs to be in our team..

- Pandev..I believe he will leave in January...if its for nothing...well Lotito and Tare really have to answer to the criticism of how this has been handled...On the other hand if it is all talk and maybe he wants to stay? who knows! Ideally would be great if he stayed but I doubt that would happen..

- As for defenders..Well, Cribari and Diakite have showed that they can play in this team and succeed..Albeit inconsistent...Let's hope that Ballardini can get the best out of them..I would personally pair Diakite with Cribari..

- My lasting comment would be to all of you we have won 2 games out of 2..And 2 trophies recently..So we are not in bad shape..All of us would have loved for a new CB to come in but that hasn't happened..I believe Diakite can step up to this..He showed against Inter that he can be a powerful figure..

- Also all of those absolutely scathing of Lotito ( I am critical of him also) Just remember that he bought Zarate for 20m...That was the main coup...Bizarri was signed for nothing..He is an excellent keeper..Eliseu..We haven't seen the best of him but its a long season and I am sure we will see what he is about...And Barreto is supposed to be something special..And Cruz for nothing who has showed what he can do already vs Chievo...A target man who everyone was calling for...Lets have some faith in our squad and our coach..

All we need is Diakite and Cribari to form a great partnership and every Laziale will be full of praise of them and our coach..

Give it time..Results tell the story..
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PostSubject: Re: Transfers and rumours 08 09 section 3   Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:27 am

rockybalboa83 wrote:
- Also all of those absolutely scathing of Lotito ( I am critical of him also) Just remember that he bought Zarate for 20m...That was the main coup...Bizarri was signed for nothing..He is an excellent keeper..Eliseu..We haven't seen the best of him but its a long season and I am sure we will see what he is about...And Barreto is supposed to be something special..And Cruz for nothing who has showed what he can do already vs Chievo...A target man who everyone was calling for...Lets have some faith in our squad and our coach..

I think nobody is critisizing Lotito for his signings in attack. On the opposite he made a quite good mercato regarding that part of the team.

The problem is that he sold our best center back and a solid right-wing backup and replaced them with... no one. Already last year our team was week in that department, and look at it now... See Mr Andersson's post.
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PostSubject: Re: Transfers and rumours 08 09 section 3   Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:31 am

Caxi wrote:
True, I said that earlier Weni, it looked to me like we held on for too long on Canini and excuses were being made as early as last night but it is one signing out of quite a good few moves. As annoyed as I am, I'll still wait until next summer before judging this team.

I respect your decision to wait until next summer, but if we're higher than let's say top eight it's certianly not because Lotito made a great mercato. In that case it would be because of the coach and the players performing over their normal level. Very Happy


Last edited by El Weninho on Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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rockybalboa83
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PostSubject: Re: Transfers and rumours 08 09 section 3   Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:31 am

El Weninho wrote:
rockybalboa83 wrote:
- Also all of those absolutely scathing of Lotito ( I am critical of him also) Just remember that he bought Zarate for 20m...That was the main coup...Bizarri was signed for nothing..He is an excellent keeper..Eliseu..We haven't seen the best of him but its a long season and I am sure we will see what he is about...And Barreto is supposed to be something special..And Cruz for nothing who has showed what he can do already vs Chievo...A target man who everyone was calling for...Lets have some faith in our squad and our coach..

I think nobody is critisizing Lotito for his signings in attack. On the opposite he made a quite good mercato regarding that part of the team.

The problem is that he sold our best center back and a solid right-wing backup and replaced them with... no one. Already last year our team was week in that department, and look at it now... See Mr Andersson's post.

I know that Wen, but what I am saying is that maybe Ballardini thinks that Cribari and Diakite are good enough?

Who are we to argue with him? Both players have played well in different patches during their careers at lazio...

Ballardini has won a trophy already beating Inter..qualified for Europa and we are 2 - 0 in Serie A...

I understand what you are saying, I would've loved a top class defender to come in, but maybe Ballardini thinks Cribari and Diakite are good enough?
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PostSubject: Re: Transfers and rumours 08 09 section 3   Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:36 am

El Weninho wrote:
Caxi wrote:
True, I said that earlier Weni, it looked to me like we held on for too long on Canini and excuses were being made as early as last night but it is one signing out of quite a good few moves. As annoyed as I am, I'll still wait until next summer before judging this team.

I respect your decision to wait until next summer, but if we're higher than let's say top eight it's certianly not because Lotito made a great mercato, but because of the coach and players performing over their normal level. Very Happy

That's what I want to wait for!

I can understand not strengthening too much given the current economic climate but I agree with you 100% and many others, there should be a defender here at the very least and there's not. For that, we can only criticise.

Right now, I can sit here and say we have made a number of clever moves on the market but considering we still lack quality in key areas, I can only describe it as mediocre. If we achieve our goals this season though (for me, Europa League qualification or Top 8 + end stages of Europa League minimum is a sufficient improvement) I can't complain but with a few buys here and there, I don't think Top 6, maybe even Top 4 would have been beyond us.
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El Weninho
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PostSubject: Re: Transfers and rumours 08 09 section 3   Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:40 am

rockybalboa83 wrote:
El Weninho wrote:
rockybalboa83 wrote:
- Also all of those absolutely scathing of Lotito ( I am critical of him also) Just remember that he bought Zarate for 20m...That was the main coup...Bizarri was signed for nothing..He is an excellent keeper..Eliseu..We haven't seen the best of him but its a long season and I am sure we will see what he is about...And Barreto is supposed to be something special..And Cruz for nothing who has showed what he can do already vs Chievo...A target man who everyone was calling for...Lets have some faith in our squad and our coach..

I think nobody is critisizing Lotito for his signings in attack. On the opposite he made a quite good mercato regarding that part of the team.

The problem is that he sold our best center back and a solid right-wing backup and replaced them with... no one. Already last year our team was week in that department, and look at it now... See Mr Andersson's post.

I know that Wen, but what I am saying is that maybe Ballardini thinks that Cribari and Diakite are good enough?

Who are we to argue with him? Both players have played well in different patches during their careers at lazio...

Ballardini has won a trophy already beating Inter..qualified for Europa and we are 2 - 0 in Serie A...

I understand what you are saying, I would've loved a top class defender to come in, but maybe Ballardini thinks Cribari and Diakite are good enough?

I understand what you're saying as well. But I doubt Lotito and Tare would have gone after a central defender like mad men during the last day of the mercato if Ballardini was happy with what he got. That makes no sence.

I agree that Cribari has been doing well during different patches of his time at Lazio. But Diakitè? No, I can't agree with that. He costed us way to many goals beeing out of position. And I believe that Siviglia is considered the first choice of Ballardini, which actually says a lot about the quality of the defence.

Ballardini did great with the material he had. No doubt about that. But we can't deny that it has been close calls each time if you exclude Elfsborg.


Last edited by El Weninho on Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Transfers and rumours 08 09 section 3   Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:40 am

If Ballardini thinks they are good enough, why did we push so hard for a CB. Why did he want Canini so much??

We beat Inter and are 2-0 in A, but in all of those games its the centre of defence that's looked terrible. A better team (read: Juve in 2 weeks) will punish us.

Our issue is we have a really unbalanced squad. Our attack and goalkeepers are of Champions League standard, our midfield is of mid-table standard and our defence would look in place at a team like Livorno.

Personally I think our best CB pairing is Diakite' and Siviglia. One has less than 15 games of Serie A under his belt, the other's legs no longer keep up with his brain. It scares me.

If we get any sort of injury crisis, it could get ugly, especially with European matches midweek.

The one positive of the final day is its September the 1st and Fabio Firmani is still here. We aren't without passione Romana, til January at least.

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PostSubject: Re: Transfers and rumours 08 09 section 3   Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:01 am

Caxi wrote:
El Weninho wrote:
Caxi wrote:
True, I said that earlier Weni, it looked to me like we held on for too long on Canini and excuses were being made as early as last night but it is one signing out of quite a good few moves. As annoyed as I am, I'll still wait until next summer before judging this team.

I respect your decision to wait until next summer, but if we're higher than let's say top eight it's certianly not because Lotito made a great mercato, but because of the coach and players performing over their normal level. Very Happy

That's what I want to wait for!

I can understand not strengthening too much given the current economic climate but I agree with you 100% and many others, there should be a defender here at the very least and there's not. For that, we can only criticise.

Right now, I can sit here and say we have made a number of clever moves on the market but considering we still lack quality in key areas, I can only describe it as mediocre. If we achieve our goals this season though (for me, Europa League qualification or Top 8 + end stages of Europa League minimum is a sufficient improvement) I can't complain but with a few buys here and there, I don't think Top 6, maybe even Top 4 would have been beyond us.

I pretty much agree with the last phrase. It's a good analyze.

But I still don't understand why it's not possible to judje Lotito for his mercato already at this point. Clearly he has not been giving the manager and the squad enough tools to be able to take a step in the right direction. If we do it, it's not Lotito who deserved the credit, even if I'm sure he will take it.

It doesn't really matter if we finish nine instead of tenth. Lazio is not about results. The key thing here is that Lotito has failed badly in several department regerading bringing the club forward. Not only did he do a mediocre mercato (I would call it awful), but more important: he managed to remove the believe and hope in supporters just as quick as it raised after the titles. And by that I mean talking about things that he could not deliver.

For me, that's what's worrying. The results on the pitch is not the most important here. Sure, as I said, if we finish top 8 the players and the manager has done a good job. But what's worrying is that Lotito constantly doing the same thing, year after year. And it hurts the club more each time.

Sorry for not being able to back off, but I'm not very happy. Very Happy

Other then that, I can only agree with c.testa and the analyze of the team. Even if I would prefer Siviglia/Cribari.
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PostSubject: Re: Transfers and rumours 08 09 section 3   Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:10 am

For sure, I think you can make a judgement on the mercato now but I would rather not until I see what this group can achieve.

We actually spent quite a bit, I'm now wondering if our success was quite a bit premature. However, we won't know until next summer how badly Lotito has got it wrong. That's all I am saying. A new coach equates to a very new team for me and if we signed a bunch of big players, it wouldn't pacify me. For this season at least, I just want signs of improvement and to see the problems of the Rossi era rectified both of which are aparent thus far, hence, I'm going to wait.
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PostSubject: Re: Transfers and rumours 08 09 section 3   Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:13 am

Did we actually sign Barretto? Cause I thought that was all rumours?

Very disappointed in the mercato... If Ledesma is integrated back into the team thats great, but we still needed a decent defender if you ask me... Its obvious... And will become glaringly obviously when we play juve in 2 weeks.
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PostSubject: Re: Transfers and rumours 08 09 section 3   Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:20 am

gibson_lp2 wrote:
Did we actually sign Barretto? Cause I thought that was all rumours?

Very disappointed in the mercato... If Ledesma is integrated back into the team thats great, but we still needed a decent defender if you ask me... Its obvious... And will become glaringly obviously when we play juve in 2 weeks.
We got Barreto, but he's staying in Danubio until January. He doesn't turn 18 until the end of the year so is ineligible to play until then. Identical situation to when Milan signed Alexandre Pato. Can only hope Barreto is of similar quality. Personally I'd rather see him stay here training with the team, but I guess when we have too many already it puts great strain on Balla.

Also want to comment on how we failed some players. The keepers Berni and Degre', both got plenty of interest with clubs where they would've been no.1 and we failed to move them on. Bonetto could've got plenty of gametime in Serie B or even A with Livorno, and we've doomed him to go 4 months without any action. Thanks to Lotito and Tare, these guys are being held back. It's not right.
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PostSubject: Re: Transfers and rumours 08 09 section 3   Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:48 am

i think tare can't do his job well.. sabbatini is better than him ... i think we should look for someone else to be our transfer guru
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PostSubject: Re: Transfers and rumours 08 09 section 3   Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:15 am

we sign valdez from reggina
does anyone know him? CD 26 years old uruquay
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PostSubject: Re: Transfers and rumours 08 09 section 3   Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:51 am

ledesma wrote:
we sign valdez from reggina
does anyone know him? CD 26 years old uruquay

Apparently we didn't sign him..

we didn't sign anyone at all..just got rid of Correa to Taranto..
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PostSubject: Re: Transfers and rumours 08 09 section 3   Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:53 am

I dont like Tare. I understand that he is very infuencial in the changing rooms but despite that he those nothing when it comes to transfers. During this transfer market all he did was lie to the fans and I also get the feeling that he is Lotitos little bitch. The guy can not make any decisions and always is the one giving fake interviews. I say time for TARE to go.
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