HomeHome  PortalPortal  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  

Share | 
 

 In 5 weeks the same conversation?

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2
AuthorMessage
Roman_Eagle
Lazio Eagle
Lazio Eagle


Number of posts : 2234
Age : 31
Country and city : Bulgaria, Veliko Tarnovo
Laziale since : 1998
Registration date : 2008-05-23

PostSubject: Re: In 5 weeks the same conversation?   Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:16 pm

club chooses which players to buy and field so before the determination and hard work comes the club's choice IMO
Back to top Go down
Caxi
Son of Maestrelli
Son of Maestrelli


Number of posts : 3884
Age : 27
Country and city : Ireland
Laziale since : 1995
Registration date : 2008-05-23

PostSubject: Re: In 5 weeks the same conversation?   Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:53 pm

The club is suffering because of this issue and naturally, that is reflected, not only on our forum but all outlets.

I judge players on the pitch, at the end of the day, it's their profession. You don't judge a receptionist based on how many people she can get to give her a call during office hours so I don't see why we should judge these three on their respective off-field reputations.

Last season, Pandev was poor despite scoring some vital goals, Ledesma was a huge help defensively and De Silvestri's contribution was minimal to say the least.

Instead of Pandev, Ledesma and De Silvestri, we now have Faraoni/Scaloni, Baronio and Cruz.

Would Lollo have made any difference to how this season is shaping up? No, because he can't compete with Lichtsteiner and Scaloni is solid enough to rest the Swissman's legs every once in a while.

Would Cristian make a difference? Defensively, maybe and in terms of leadership, most probably. However, Baronio has been solid and makes this situation difficult to judge. There would be another option but we can remedy this in January.

Would Goran make a difference? Perhaps but I wouldn't play him over the more committed Zarate and Rocchi and Cruz is more than capable of banging in goals so for me, he is no huge loss.

I admire what these guys have done in the past but they unsettled this team last season and until they are gone, we will all be unsettled. Many use this as an opportunity to criticise Lotito and that's fair enough but when these three go, the team atmosphere should be superb. I don't think we would be any better with them than without them. There's other areas that need to be improved and I prefer to concentrate on those aspects.
Back to top Go down
Roman_Eagle
Lazio Eagle
Lazio Eagle


Number of posts : 2234
Age : 31
Country and city : Bulgaria, Veliko Tarnovo
Laziale since : 1998
Registration date : 2008-05-23

PostSubject: Re: In 5 weeks the same conversation?   Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:03 pm

I like the way you think :)
Back to top Go down
El Weninho
LFever Team Member
LFever Team Member


Number of posts : 386
Age : 30
Country and city : Sweden
Registration date : 2008-05-23

PostSubject: Re: In 5 weeks the same conversation?   Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:59 am

I will follow your advice Paolo and talk a bit about different things in the other threads on the forum. We could use some of that as well. Because when it comes to Lazio I agree with the previous posters saying it's inavoidable to discuss Lotito and his actions right now. Personally I think the situation is far worse this season compared to last and maybe even the season before that.

Roman_Eagle wrote:
William-85 wrote:
Our beloved Lazio is being torn apart from within.

How can we not talk about it???

it's just three people.... come on! three people that made the biggest mistakes of their lives fighting the club which made them! do you think the other fans will welcome them? they will always be the players which betrayed their own club for money. it could be forgotten for a while but if there is a problem with them in the new club it will be brought back.

Pandev? He will most probably go to Inter...play a couple of games while Eto'o is gone and after that what? and those games are under a big question cause inter have arnautovic and baloteli fighting for Eto'o's place.

LDS? Does he even play at fiorentina?

Ledesma? - maybe and I say maybe he is the only one we could use, cause personally I don't see big difference between his game and Barinio's game.. Ledesma is just better in defense and this is it. yes he had some good games, but some games out of a long season is not that much. might be the smartest of the three if the rumors of him negotiating his place back are true ... if not good luck to him and a peace of advice to him - find a new agent!

you all saw what happened with Behrami - after all the big clubs wanted him he ended up in West Ham. And Oddo? he was loaned to bayern for a season. Jimenez? same thing. I just have fun seeing the wanna-be's fall down..hard! That's what you get for disrespecting Lazio.

I don't share this wiew and I have to agree with Kris on this one. If we would have been talking about players like Oddo and Stendardo then yes, I would agree with you that Lazio "made them". But I think there's a big difference from them and for example Pandev.

Why? Because Pandev gave more to La Lazio than Lotito gave him. He signed from Inter, started on the bench and didn't get a lot of time in the first eleven. Then Rocchi went on playing really good and was rewarded with a new, lucrative contract. But the following seasons, when Pandev was at his top and finally earned his place in the starting eleven, nothing happened. No contract, no raise.

So what did Lotito do before last season, when Pandev was considered our first and best striker? Signed Zárate, gave him a deal that Pandev wasn't even close to. Delio Rossi was able to rotate with Rocchi, Zárate and Pandev upfront. The problem was that even if Pandev was considered second attacker last season, his early salary was about the same as Rocchi and Zárate earned all together in one month (if the figures in Italian newspapers are correct).

Then Pandev won his titel, said he wanted a new challange and to sign for another club. During his time at Lazio his value raised from about one million euro to ten, but yet Lotito failed to sell him because he didn't got enough money. Now he also claims that Pandev was offered a contract but choose not to sign. He might have been offered that contract, but in that case it was to late. Lotito should have offered him a contract already two, three years ago when he was one of the best strikers in serie A.

I don't think that Pandev ever disrespected Lazio. I do however think that Lotito disrespected one of the best strikers we had in a long time. And to be honest I don't think supporters of other teams would have a problem with having him their team. On the opposite I think most people are on his side in this matter and would get pretty surprised when they learn how much he earns right now.

I think it's easy to forger how good Pandev was and how many important goal he scored, never complaining about his contract or when Rossi constantly put him behind Rocchi in the ranks.

I'm on Lollo's and Ledesma's side as well. But they are separate cases I think.
Back to top Go down
El Weninho
LFever Team Member
LFever Team Member


Number of posts : 386
Age : 30
Country and city : Sweden
Registration date : 2008-05-23

PostSubject: Re: In 5 weeks the same conversation?   Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:49 am

Seems like we often have pretty different opinions regarding Lotito and the current situation, Caxi. That's good, othwerwise I would have to discuss with myself in an empty room Very Happy

Caxi wrote:
The club is suffering because of this issue and naturally, that is reflected, not only on our forum but all outlets.

I judge players on the pitch, at the end of the day, it's their profession. You don't judge a receptionist based on how many people she can get to give her a call during office hours so I don't see why we should judge these three on their respective off-field reputations.

I understand your thoughts with judging them on the pitch. If I were to judge them only when they play, I would probably also agree with you that the only player we miss right now is Ledesma. But I choose to judge this situation quite the opposite actually. Wink

What worries me most is that situation is hurting our club's image and doesn't match our style, our Lazialitá. If players that respects the colors and the supporters doesn't get anything back expect from being called "mercanero", then who wants to extend a contract with Lazio? Muslera, Kolarov? Lichststeiner? Probably not, after seeing this. I always said that the players have an obligation when they sign the contract, but just like in every other business things should work both ways. Not only one.

Caxi wrote:
Last season, Pandev was poor despite scoring some vital goals, Ledesma was a huge help defensively and De Silvestri's contribution was minimal to say the least.

I think De Silvestris contribution has always been big. Maybe not on the pitch, but outside. A Romano and a Laziale, a role model for the younger players coming up (pretty much everyone said they looked at him as an example) and a very smart and humble guy. I miss him and his contribution a lot. Just to see him running down the flank made me happy.

Caxi wrote:
Would Goran make a difference? Perhaps but I wouldn't play him over the more committed Zarate and Rocchi and Cruz is more than capable of banging in goals so for me, he is no huge loss.

The problem is that Pandev never got the chance to prove his value. Neither on the pitch or by explaining his side of this situation. Cribari stated that he wanted to leave after the Chievo-game last season and he is still here. Why does Lotito (is it really Ballardini's decision?) let him play but not Pandev and Ledesma? Probably only because he failed to sign a replacement, as he constantly refers to when speaking about Pandev (Cruz). Or because to sign a new contract with Cribari wouldn't be a problem. I don't like at all how this situation has been handled, even if I agree that if Pandev were to return, he would be fourth choice.

Caxi wrote:

I admire what these guys have done in the past but they unsettled this team last season and until they are gone, we will all be unsettled. Many use this as an opportunity to criticise Lotito and that's fair enough but when these three go, the team atmosphere should be superb. I don't think we would be any better with them than without them. There's other areas that need to be improved and I prefer to concentrate on those aspects.

I don't think the team atmosphere will be better just because we ship away Ledesma and Pandev. Team building is going on at Formello, outside the pitch and partly also on the pitch. I don't see why the other players would be happy if we sold those two. On the opposite some players have even said they want them back in the squad.

And not to forget, when (if) we ship away Ledesma and Pandev then there's the next problem around the corner. We still have players like Bonetto and Stendardo that aren't allowed to practice with the team and speak about their situation without getting fined. Lotito's contract policy has created a situation where we could have like 45 players on Formello next season. What happens when players like Zauri, Carrizo, Tuia, Mendicino and Mancini returns... And let's not forget about players like Del Nero, Manfredini, Inzaghi, Firmani and Makinwa.

It's a mess, no matter if Ledesma and Pandev stays or goes.
Back to top Go down
Caxi
Son of Maestrelli
Son of Maestrelli


Number of posts : 3884
Age : 27
Country and city : Ireland
Laziale since : 1995
Registration date : 2008-05-23

PostSubject: Re: In 5 weeks the same conversation?   Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:24 am

Yes, I understand what you are saying but there is a strong point that I feel most people are missing.

The comparison you made to Cribari is key. He did no different to what Pandev, Ledesma or De Silvestri did but for one thing; his problem was with the coach and the fans, not Lotito.

In life, people have different viewpoints and criticising "the" president for ALL issues is ludicrous to me. The last few seasons were not woeful because the players hated Lotito; many players despised the coach and the fans too.

If Lazio is suffering, the problem is Lazio and all involved. You don't solve crimes if you remove all the criminals, you don't stop wars from occurring by removing the armies, you don't stop disagreements by removing the dissenters and this is what I find remarkable with some attitudes. The world changes and it is up to us to adapt. Lazio has no exemption.

Removing Lotito would be a temporary solution to many problems, removing Pandev, Ledesma and De Silvestri was always going to be a temporary fix. If we cannot judge players on the field then I have no problem in saying that my heroes here are the likes of Cribari, Baronio, Inzaghi, maybe even Manfredini drunken etc.

This is the thing; we judge players on the pitch when it suits us and we judge them off the field when it suits us too. If you look at all the posts on the forum, 6-9 months ago people were disillusioned by the lack of Lazialita' and yet they didn't want to see the players who ooze Lazialita' play. Ledesma, Pandev and De Silvestri were all highly criticised and now just a few months down the line, people are going insane over their non-presence. Now that Lazialita' (on the field) appears to have been restored, people want something completely different and want players who have no real desire to wear our shirt play. All this baffles me.

If we are going to finish mid-table, I want to see the Baronios and Cribaris wear our shirt instead of players who don't particularly want to be here. Would the 'dissidenti' fire us up the table? No, because in my eyes, they've been replaced adequately.

That's why I find the continuous debate strange because since it has began, I've changed my opinion about 6 million times and very few others appear to be doing so. I'd like to think I am adapting and moving with the times. I'm fired up for Samp. Massively. And yet I feel like I will probably have to discuss the issue with myself soon. That's disheartening for me.
Back to top Go down
Il Capitano
Curva Maestrelli
Curva Maestrelli


Number of posts : 352
Age : 36
Country and city : Germany
Laziale since : 1999
Registration date : 2008-05-22

PostSubject: Re: In 5 weeks the same conversation?   Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:43 pm

Conn wrote:
Since the season started the topic has always been lotito... lotito and the mercato, lotito and the stadium, lotito and the "dissidenti", lotito and the press.

But what can we talk about?

Maybe you can just talk about the sport? The players in the squad? The support? The Europa League? Shouldn't that be enough???
Back to top Go down
Roman_Eagle
Lazio Eagle
Lazio Eagle


Number of posts : 2234
Age : 31
Country and city : Bulgaria, Veliko Tarnovo
Laziale since : 1998
Registration date : 2008-05-23

PostSubject: Re: In 5 weeks the same conversation?   Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:08 pm

Naaaaaaah it's better to talk sh*t about the president and disturb further more the situation which is already really tense No
Back to top Go down
Jofo
Forum Maister
Forum Maister


Number of posts : 1712
Age : 27
Registration date : 2008-11-05

PostSubject: Re: In 5 weeks the same conversation?   Sun Oct 18, 2009 2:13 am

Again we failed to get the point, the conversation continues.....even here.

Will I get involved, no. Not because it doesn't make sense but because its meaningless.

But I think we all fail to get the point: It hurt us that bad because we love so much.
Back to top Go down
El Weninho
LFever Team Member
LFever Team Member


Number of posts : 386
Age : 30
Country and city : Sweden
Registration date : 2008-05-23

PostSubject: Re: In 5 weeks the same conversation?   Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:07 am

Roman_Eagle wrote:
Naaaaaaah it's better to talk sh*t about the president and disturb further more the situation which is already really tense

Maybe you're right. Maybe there is no point to keep discussing this situation on the forum anymore. If anyone feels that this is hurting the spirit in this forum and our club then I'm truly sorry and apologize for that. Honestly.

I stayed pretty quite for some months on the forum because I said to myself that discussing it would do no good. Maybe that's better, just discussing Lotito and the situation with friends and leave it out from the forum. I honestly don't know. But I just can't stand seeing my club in this condition, and somehow I feel I want to share this view with everyone else. Just can't keep it for myself anymore. So that's my explenation for dragging on about those things in almost every post I make. Just to explain why I do it.

Caxi wrote:
The comparison you made to Cribari is key. He did no different to what Pandev, Ledesma or De Silvestri did but for one thing; his problem was with the coach and the fans, not Lotito.

Agreed. But I think it's still a relevant comparison because it says a lot about Lotito and what players he prefers at Lazio.

He keeps on saying that Ledesma and Pandev are kept outside the squad because they stated that they did not wanted to be a part of this project (and that it's Ballardini's choice). And even if Cribari had a problem with the managers and the supporters I fail to see the difference in these situations. They said the exact same words - yet Lotito let Cribari play after not being able to sell him during the summer. If he would have been able to, then IMO he would probably have said the exact same things about Cribari as about Pandev and Ledesma.

Cribari had a problem with Rossi and the supporters. We (I) forgive him and gave him a second chance. Why would it be impossible for Lotito to do so with for example Ledesma?

Caxi wrote:
In life, people have different viewpoints and criticising "the" president for ALL issues is ludicrous to me. The last few seasons were not woeful because the players hated Lotito; many players despised the coach and the fans too.

If Lazio is suffering, the problem is Lazio and all involved. You don't solve crimes if you remove all the criminals, you don't stop wars from occurring by removing the armies, you don't stop disagreements by removing the dissenters and this is what I find remarkable with some attitudes. The world changes and it is up to us to adapt. Lazio has no exemption.

Removing Lotito would be a temporary solution to many problems, removing Pandev, Ledesma and De Silvestri was always going to be a temporary fix. If we cannot judge players on the field then I have no problem in saying that my heroes here are the likes of Cribari, Baronio, Inzaghi, maybe even Manfredini drunken etc.

I agree that it's ludicrous to critisize Lotito for everything, of course, but I don't think that many players despised the fans. The coach yes, but not the fans. And I think Lazio always (under Lotito) has played with a squad that is bigger then it should be. For me that's a key to why the situation has been pretty bad at Formello and in the dressing room, according to the reports.

Caxi wrote:

This is the thing; we judge players on the pitch when it suits us and we judge them off the field when it suits us too. If you look at all the posts on the forum, 6-9 months ago people were disillusioned by the lack of Lazialita' and yet they didn't want to see the players who ooze Lazialita' play. Ledesma, Pandev and De Silvestri were all highly criticised and now just a few months down the line, people are going insane over their non-presence. Now that Lazialita' (on the field) appears to have been restored, people want something completely different and want players who have no real desire to wear our shirt play. All this baffles me.

I suspect this was not directed at me but to some forum members in general. Because I don't recognize this critics. Personally I hardly said anything bad about Ledesma last season, on the opposite I said many times that he's our best player and takes a huge responsability. As far as I remember I also said, as one of few, that I wanted to see De Silvestri play instead of Lichststeiner (with all respect to him, he's growing for every game in my eyes), simply because he is Laziale. That might be a stupid opinion but that's how I saw it.

I don't know what happened beetween De Silvestri and Lotito, maybe some of Lollos words were exgaggerated when he left, but I have to say that whoever are right or wrong this deal makes me even more sad for each day that pass. No matter if it was right or wrong, I think it's really sad that words like "mercanero" was actually involved in the debate.

Caxi wrote:
If we are going to finish mid-table, I want to see the Baronios and Cribaris wear our shirt instead of players who don't particularly want to be here. Would the 'dissidenti' fire us up the table? No, because in my eyes, they've been replaced adequately.

That's why I find the continuous debate strange because since it has began, I've changed my opinion about 6 million times and very few others appear to be doing so. I'd like to think I am adapting and moving with the times. I'm fired up for Samp. Massively. And yet I feel like I will probably have to discuss the issue with myself soon. That's disheartening for me.

I'm not sure that Cribari and Baronio wants to be here more then Ledesma wants or De Silvestri wanted to be, but ok, I respect and also understand that opinion. However, I think it's crystal clear that we would be doing better with the dissidenti (and De Silvestri and Rozehnal as well, since Lotito didn't bother to replace them). Not only would it add quality to the squad, but it would also provide the dept that we so desperately lack. Ballardini is saying at least two times at every press conference that it's hard to play so many games. It's frustrating, because we really have that quality on the side without using it.

Injury's hit us bad? Not really, one striker (Rocchi), one midfielder (Brocchi) and two defenders (Siviglia and Diakité) is pretty standard. The problem is that we have no replacements because we SOLD two of our defenders and didn't replace them. And we keep our best midfielder outside the squad.

Has the players been replaced adequately? No, can't agree with that. Pandev with Cruz yes, that was a solid mercato move. But there is a reason Lichtsteiner is playing almost every minute in Lazio. Scaloni and Perpetuini equal to De Silvestri? Then why don't they play to the same extent and why didn't Fiorentina buy one of them instead of De Silvestri?

I believe that if you ask any tifoso, player, manager or even president in Italy - everyone would prefere Ledesma instead of Baronio. All the respect to Baronio, but comparing him to Ledesma is not fair. They are completely different players and Ledesma's qualitys are better in all ways, expect from cross balls pretty much. If we disagree on this then maybe it's better that we put this discussion behind Very Happy
Back to top Go down
Caxi
Son of Maestrelli
Son of Maestrelli


Number of posts : 3884
Age : 27
Country and city : Ireland
Laziale since : 1995
Registration date : 2008-05-23

PostSubject: Re: In 5 weeks the same conversation?   Sun Oct 18, 2009 2:42 pm

Again, some good points.

According to Sabatini, a swap deal involving Cribari and Simplicio was agreed but the deal was pulled by Lotito at the last minute, presumably because money came in for Rozehnal and Lotito valued that cash more than Simplicio (considering all signs point to Simplicio moving her on a free by next summer). I prefer Cribari to Rozehnal anyway; maybe that's just me but I don't really see what Lotito did wrong there, other than not landing the Brazilian.

Taking the laziale out of De Silvestri, I didn't see any player in our side do something as foolish as what De Silvestri did against Fiorentina last season. It was petulant, it cost us points and it was the most glaringly obvious mistake I've ever seen. I couldn't choose him over Lichtsteiner. He got a few chances and he blew them and now he has swapped the bench here for the one at Fiorentina. I agree that it's sad but I don't have that much empathy for him given his antics on the field.

As for the tifosi and their relationship with the players, I think it is just as bad as Lotito. Cribari had his issues as we all know, Siviglia got himself in hot water with them too, Carrizo was hardly buddy buddy with the Curva, Manfredini and Makinwa must dread walking on that field, there is a minority that struggle to accept Ledesma and Pandev and I'm sure there are many other cases we don't know about.

To solve ths partcular problem, the fans need to have more compasson and understanding, the president needs to take a step back from his hardline approach, the players have got to concentrate on the field more than off it and the coach just needs to keep doing what he is doing with a smaller squad. It's that simple for me.
Back to top Go down
Conn
Honour member
Honour member


Number of posts : 734
Age : 37
Country and city : Italy, Rome
Laziale since : I was born
Registration date : 2008-05-26

PostSubject: Re: In 5 weeks the same conversation?   Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:05 pm

Il Capitano wrote:
Conn wrote:
Since the season started the topic has always been lotito... lotito and the mercato, lotito and the stadium, lotito and the "dissidenti", lotito and the press.

But what can we talk about?

Maybe you can just talk about the sport? The players in the squad? The support? The Europa League? Shouldn't that be enough???

No, i guess it's not enough for me and I've already said why in the post you quoted partially... What can you do... we are not all the same.
Back to top Go down
El Weninho
LFever Team Member
LFever Team Member


Number of posts : 386
Age : 30
Country and city : Sweden
Registration date : 2008-05-23

PostSubject: Re: In 5 weeks the same conversation?   Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:06 am

Caxi wrote:
Again, some good points.

According to Sabatini, a swap deal involving Cribari and Simplicio was agreed but the deal was pulled by Lotito at the last minute, presumably because money came in for Rozehnal and Lotito valued that cash more than Simplicio (considering all signs point to Simplicio moving her on a free by next summer). I prefer Cribari to Rozehnal anyway; maybe that's just me but I don't really see what Lotito did wrong there, other than not landing the Brazilian.

Taking the laziale out of De Silvestri, I didn't see any player in our side do something as foolish as what De Silvestri did against Fiorentina last season. It was petulant, it cost us points and it was the most glaringly obvious mistake I've ever seen. I couldn't choose him over Lichtsteiner. He got a few chances and he blew them and now he has swapped the bench here for the one at Fiorentina. I agree that it's sad but I don't have that much empathy for him given his antics on the field.

As for the tifosi and their relationship with the players, I think it is just as bad as Lotito. Cribari had his issues as we all know, Siviglia got himself in hot water with them too, Carrizo was hardly buddy buddy with the Curva, Manfredini and Makinwa must dread walking on that field, there is a minority that struggle to accept Ledesma and Pandev and I'm sure there are many other cases we don't know about.

To solve ths partcular problem, the fans need to have more compasson and understanding, the president needs to take a step back from his hardline approach, the players have got to concentrate on the field more than off it and the coach just needs to keep doing what he is doing with a smaller squad. It's that simple for me.

Interesting discussion. I'm starting to wonder if we misunderstand eachother a bit and actually agree on some things. Let's see.

About Cribari/Rozehnal: Wasn't the deal Radu/Simplicio, but that Lotito refused Sabatini's offer? Maybe I remember it wrong but I can't recall that I saw anything that said Cribari was part of the deal. But in each case you're right about Sabatini saying that Lotito didn't wanted to sell. Maybe I'm a bit biased then, but it just sounds strange to me that Lotito would refuse a decent offer. I'm not sure I trust Sabatinis on this one. Especially since Cribari's agent said in Juny that he and Cribari considered the "cycle with Lotito closed".

I prefer Rozehnal over Cribari, but that's not my point. If you compare De Silvestri's and Cribari's cases it won't be easy to see any difference. Both players stated (if we choose to let Cribari's agent represent him in this case) that they had a problem working with the president or thay they wanted to end the co-operation. Both players wanted to leave Lazio, even if De Silvestri never really said so directly. Both players were not best friends with Rossi and didn't play that much. Both players contracts were to expire.

Then De Silvestri get's froozen out and is sold to Fiorentina, with Lotito saying he is a "mercanero" and that "he died as a player when he left Lazio". Cribari on the opposite continues to play just as nothing has happened. Don't get me wrong, because I'm on Cribari's side, but I'm just wondering how Lotito is reasoning and where he sees the difference.

I'm just wondering why he constantly fails to keep/take care of our best players (Behrami, Pandev, Ledesma) or Laziali/strong personalitys (Firmani, Mutarelli, De Silvestri) but manage to sign new contract with those who pretty much have reached their maximum at Lazio (Zauri, Cribari, Siviglia).

About De Silvestri: This is where I think we're discussing from different views and maybe also misunderstand eachother a bit. Why should we take the Laziale out of De Silvestri? I can't discuss De Silvestri taking the Laziale out of him, that would be irrelevant. For me, the Laziale in him is the root to the whole situation discussed in this thread. To be honest I don't really care if Scaloni is a solid replacement or not. All I care about is that De Silvestri was bashed in public by our president that apparently doesn't think that Lazialitá, which has created this club and kept it going for 109 years, is important.

If Lazio were only to be judged on the pitch and for it's results then I would probably praise Lotito for buying the club, keeping it alive and even made it possible for it to win trophies. But I simply cannot do that. For me Lazio is something else, something that Lotito doesn't agree is important. Both La Lazio and SS Lazio 1900 are things that Lotito can not touch. But he's certainly doing his best to do it anyway. Can't really be comfortable with that. It's strange, because I honestly think more about the Coppa-title we took in 2004 then both our latest. They made me truly happy during the summer, but in the long run every title that Lotito wins are different from the others.

So to make it short, I think we're discussing from different angles and it's better if we leave the part about De Silvestri behind.

About the fans: I agree with you that last year there were some tension, which is not very unusual in a situation like that. But the difference is that the majority of the players apologized and later received the support once again from the supporters. It's not like Lotito ever did a thing like that - expect from the Cribari case. People like Sereni, Belleri, De Silvestri, Oddo, Stendardo, Talamonti, Bonetto, Behrami, Antonio Filippini, Emanuele Filippini, Liverani, Mutarelli, Mudingayi, Ledesma, Firmani, Manfredini, Di Canio, Pandev, Inzaghi Bianchi, Delio Rossi, Sabatini, Acri, Osti, De Martino, Patarca and Pulici are probably still waiting. Very Happy In some cases he is right, no doubt about that, but it's still very sad.

About the solution: Sounds nice and would probably be a very easy solution if it was possible. My opinion is however that three out of four parts already tried to fulfill those requests, for the best interest of SS Lazio 1900, but discovered it pointless. Because as long as all parts doesn't participate it isn't going to work.
Back to top Go down
Caxi
Son of Maestrelli
Son of Maestrelli


Number of posts : 3884
Age : 27
Country and city : Ireland
Laziale since : 1995
Registration date : 2008-05-23

PostSubject: Re: In 5 weeks the same conversation?   Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:45 pm

From what I remember, Sabatini has said that a swap deal between Simplico and Cribari was agreed until Lotito pulled the plug. Walter claims that they know Simplicio will walk for free in the summer so the deal would have been excellent for them and when it was pulled, they tried to negotiate Radu into it instead. Might not be 100% on that but I think I'm close enough.

As for De Silvestri, just for one last time, I know what angle you are coming at it from and I know exactly what your concerns are but as to it having a long-term, detrimental effect on the club, I can't see that and that's why I'm not protesting about the decision to sell him. He was a thorn in people's sides, perhaps had the best interest of the club at heart but I'm sure neither of us disagree on the fact that he ruffled the wrong feathers.

And I know exactly what you and many others are talking about when discussing Lotito and Lazialita'. It has been said (probably by you?) that it is the special relationship between the tifosi, the president, the coach, the staff, the players etc. You're right, it is dying but it is not solely the presidents fault. So many of us here won't give the guy a second chance, from his perspective, why should he bother with us? It's not a "who started what" scenario but what disappoints me is that we can't seem to look inwardly on ourselves and do our bit to restore the Lazialita'. Unfortunately, that's what I am seeing nowadays. Did not see it 3-4 years ago but right now, it's bad enough to be considered depressing.
Back to top Go down
El Weninho
LFever Team Member
LFever Team Member


Number of posts : 386
Age : 30
Country and city : Sweden
Registration date : 2008-05-23

PostSubject: Re: In 5 weeks the same conversation?   Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:37 am

Caxi wrote:
From what I remember, Sabatini has said that a swap deal between Simplico and Cribari was agreed until Lotito pulled the plug. Walter claims that they know Simplicio will walk for free in the summer so the deal would have been excellent for them and when it was pulled, they tried to negotiate Radu into it instead. Might not be 100% on that but I think I'm close enough.

As for De Silvestri, just for one last time, I know what angle you are coming at it from and I know exactly what your concerns are but as to it having a long-term, detrimental effect on the club, I can't see that and that's why I'm not protesting about the decision to sell him. He was a thorn in people's sides, perhaps had the best interest of the club at heart but I'm sure neither of us disagree on the fact that he ruffled the wrong feathers.

And I know exactly what you and many others are talking about when discussing Lotito and Lazialita'. It has been said (probably by you?) that it is the special relationship between the tifosi, the president, the coach, the staff, the players etc. You're right, it is dying but it is not solely the presidents fault. So many of us here won't give the guy a second chance, from his perspective, why should he bother with us? It's not a "who started what" scenario but what disappoints me is that we can't seem to look inwardly on ourselves and do our bit to restore the Lazialita'. Unfortunately, that's what I am seeing nowadays. Did not see it 3-4 years ago but right now, it's bad enough to be considered depressing.

You might be right about the deal. Close enough in either case, let's leave it at that.

I understand also your wiew on De Silvestri and his performence on the pitch. But I just don't think we will get any longer with that discussion, because even from a long-term point of wiew I fail to see how it would gain the club to sell him. I tend to look at the other way. In the short time perhaps because he was not really a starter, and we got some money from the sell. But looking at it from a long-term perspective I only see a Laziale with great Lazialitá sold just because he didn't fit into the president and managers plans. I see a role model for the youngsters treated like s*it and I see a future with Siviglia as right defender when Lichsteiner isn't able to play.

I don't agree that the supporters didn't gave Lotito a chance. Last year there were hardly any protests on the stadium. No chants and not very much critics during the game - only support for the team. He really had the chance, but then he did an awful mercato and kept some key players outside the squad. Against Parma everything started again when it became clear to most people that we once again had been taking a step backwards. And that time not even the rest of the stadium protested against the chants, which has been the case the seasons before.

I think the supporters really have tried to do something and to take a step back. And I do think Lotito should bother with the supporters because I think 109 years of history and Lazialitá says he has to. And saying that there is only "a minority" that is against him is just wrong.

Probably we don't share the view on some things in Lazio right now and I guess it's best to stop the whole discussion here. I think it's as easy as that. Very Happy
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: In 5 weeks the same conversation?   Today at 7:33 pm

Back to top Go down
 
In 5 weeks the same conversation?
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 2 of 2Go to page : Previous  1, 2
 Similar topics
-
» Fast Finish Two Weeks Out
» Half marathon four weeks after marathon?
» Starting 2nd marathon training session in two weeks, modify Intermediate 1?
» Offensive/Defensive team stats - Weeks 1-16
» Nadal weeks as World No.1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
 :: SS LAZIO 1900 :: Only SS Lazio-
Jump to: