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 Raid on Salzburg!!!

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Sile
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PostSubject: Raid on Salzburg!!!   Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:05 am

With any win with a 2 goal margin or a win 2-1, 3-2, 4-3 followed by a win against fucking Levski @ home we are progressing so LET'S FUCKING GO TO SALZBURG AND SHOW THE TEAM THAT WE'VE HAD ENOUGH OF FUCKING AROUND!

I know it's right before the derby and that it's a lot of money (it will cost me an arm and a leg) but I know that some members are interested in going so let's get together for a beer and some Red Bull ass kicking!!

FORZA LAZIO!!

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"One love, One Lazio SUPER TECH!!!" - mr douglas

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Matrim
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PostSubject: Re: Raid on Salzburg!!!   Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:12 am

That's not exactly true actually, if we and Villareal beat Red Bull and Levski, there will be three teams with 12 points at the top and we might not progress even if we beat Red Bull 2-0, the clincher wil lbe goal difference in the games between the three teams and with tonight's loss ours is not very good...
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Sile
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PostSubject: Re: Raid on Salzburg!!!   Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:17 am

Matrim wrote:
That's not exactly true actually, if we and Villareal beat Red Bull and Levski, there will be three teams with 12 points at the top and we might not progress even if we beat Red Bull 2-0, the clincher wil lbe goal difference in the games between the three teams and with tonight's loss ours is not very good...

We won 4-0 against Levski away, so with a 2-0 victory we'd be ahead of RB both on head to head and goal difference (they'd have 6-3 and us 10-7 so we'd be ahead of goals scored) and if they lose the last game and we win the gap would widen. RB won against Levski twice with 1-0. We have to win against RB and then against Levski and we'd be sure to progress, leaving Villa and RB to battle it out.

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Matrim
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PostSubject: Re: Raid on Salzburg!!!   Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:22 am

The goal difference in the matches agaisnt Levski matters only if the GD in the matches between the teams with equal poits is the same.

http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Regulations/competitions/UEFACup/84/52/89/845289_DOWNLOAD.pdf

Quote :
7.05 If two or more teams are equal on points on completion of all the group
matches, the following criteria are applied to determine the rankings (in
descending order):
a) higher number of points obtained in the group matches played among the
teams in question;
b) superior goal difference from the group matches played among the teams
in question;


c) higher number of goals scored away from home in the group matches
played among the teams in question;
d) superior goal difference from all group matches played;

Sorry for being a wet blanket.
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Terry
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PostSubject: Re: Raid on Salzburg!!!   Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:24 am

considering the first criterion our friend mentioned above wont happen whatsoever now. so when three teams tie in this group, uefa will compare the goal difference among these three tied teams.

very similar to the case we had two season ago prior to the showdown at estadio bernabeu!
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Sile
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PostSubject: Re: Raid on Salzburg!!!   Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:49 am

Matrim wrote:
The goal difference in the matches agaisnt Levski matters only if the GD in the matches between the teams with equal poits is the same.

http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Regulations/competitions/UEFACup/84/52/89/845289_DOWNLOAD.pdf

Quote :
7.05 If two or more teams are equal on points on completion of all the group
matches, the following criteria are applied to determine the rankings (in
descending order):
a) higher number of points obtained in the group matches played among the
teams in question;
b) superior goal difference from the group matches played among the teams
in question;


c) higher number of goals scored away from home in the group matches
played among the teams in question;
d) superior goal difference from all group matches played;

Sorry for being a wet blanket.

Yes I understand, but they won against us 2-1 right, so if we win 2-0 or 3-2, 4-3 etc then we are better than them head to head. If we win 2-1 then we're the same head to head, which is when the total goal diff comes into play. So with 2 wins the least we can do is +2 goal diff and the least that they can do is -2 with two losses which puts us ahead of them. But we must score at least 2 goals against them, a 1-0 victory will not be enough.

_________________
"One love, One Lazio SUPER TECH!!!" - mr douglas

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Matrim
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PostSubject: Re: Raid on Salzburg!!!   Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:16 am

Notice that I am talking about a scenario with three teams on equal points, not just us and Saltzburg.
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Sile
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PostSubject: Re: Raid on Salzburg!!!   Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:27 am

Matrim wrote:
Notice that I am talking about a scenario with three teams on equal points, not just us and Saltzburg.

That scenario requires Villarreal to beat RB and Levski and us to beat RB and Levski, leaving three teams with 12 points. Salzburg beat Villareal 2-0 at home and us 2-1 away. Which means if we win 2-0 we're better than RB in head to head. If Villa beats RB for instance 1-0, that would mean we're better than RB, RB is better than Villa, and Villa is better than us, leaving total goal difference in play. With 3 teams at 12 point it inevitably leaves RB with the weakest goal difference, the best they can have is 6 for and 3 against if they lose 2-0 to us and 1-0 to Villa.

So a 2-0 or 2-1, 3-2 etc win is imperative for us to control our own destiny.

_________________
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Kris
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PostSubject: Re: Raid on Salzburg!!!   Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:28 am

Really guys... Lets stop arguing about goal difference.

The point that Sile importantly raised was "lets go to salzburg and smash em!"

Lets not look too far ahead, and distract ourselves from the main task ahead. TO WIN!

What happens with other games & goal difference is not important now. We''ll cross that bridge when we get to it.

FORZA LAZIO!
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Matrim
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PostSubject: Re: Raid on Salzburg!!!   Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:33 am

Sile wrote:
Matrim wrote:
Notice that I am talking about a scenario with three teams on equal points, not just us and Saltzburg.

That scenario requires Villarreal to beat RB and Levski and us to beat RB and Levski, leaving three teams with 12 points. Salzburg beat Villareal 2-0 at home and us 2-1 away. Which means if we win 2-0 we're better than RB in head to head. If Villa beats RB for instance 1-0, that would mean we're better than RB, RB is better than Villa, and Villa is better than us, leaving total goal difference in play. With 3 teams at 12 point it inevitably leaves RB with the weakest goal difference, the best they can have is 6 for and 3 against if they lose 2-0 to us and 1-0 to Villa.


If we beat 2-0 and RB loses 1-0 in their last game we are screwed. GD in the matches between those three teams which is the thing that matters will be:

1. Villareal 6:5
2. RB 4:4
3. Lazio 6:7
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Terry
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PostSubject: Re: Raid on Salzburg!!!   Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:39 am

Matrim wrote:
Sile wrote:
Matrim wrote:
Notice that I am talking about a scenario with three teams on equal points, not just us and Saltzburg.

That scenario requires Villarreal to beat RB and Levski and us to beat RB and Levski, leaving three teams with 12 points. Salzburg beat Villareal 2-0 at home and us 2-1 away. Which means if we win 2-0 we're better than RB in head to head. If Villa beats RB for instance 1-0, that would mean we're better than RB, RB is better than Villa, and Villa is better than us, leaving total goal difference in play. With 3 teams at 12 point it inevitably leaves RB with the weakest goal difference, the best they can have is 6 for and 3 against if they lose 2-0 to us and 1-0 to Villa.


If we beat 2-0 and RB loses 1-0 in their last game we are screwed. GD in the matches between those three teams which is the thing that matters will be:

1. Villareal 6:5
2. RB 4:4
3. Lazio 6:7

that's what i was to say but not in the right mood to explain things in details
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Bobbi
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PostSubject: Re: Raid on Salzburg!!!   Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:44 am

I just want a win.
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Kris
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PostSubject: Re: Raid on Salzburg!!!   Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:46 am

Bobbi wrote:
I just want a win.

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Sile
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PostSubject: Re: Raid on Salzburg!!!   Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:49 am

If it comes to be that we have equal points with Villa and RB while Villareal also have 12 points but better head to head with us and RB, then what will be looked at is our head to head with RB and then our total goal diff vs their total goal diff.

Quote :
b) superior goal difference from the group matches played among the teams
in question
This doesn\'t relate to us-Villa-RB relation but to us and RB meaning if we win 2-0 we are better anyway because vs us they scored 2 and conceded 3, so point C
Quote :
c) higher number of goals scored away from home in the group matches
played among the teams in question;
Meaning if we win 3-2 away the goal diff would be the same only we scored more goals away.

So 2-0 gets us through based on point b, 3-2 gets us through on point C.

-----------------------------------------------

Jesus people, how can I explain this:

Red Bull won 2-1 against us, 2-0 against Villa.
We won agaisnt Villa 2-1, then lost 4-1.

Meaning, if Villa and us win the last 2 games then 3 teams will have 12 points. But how we win will be the factor. Villa will surely progress if they win twice, this is out of the question.
But if RB loses twice, and we win twice, but we win against them with at least 2 goals scored away, this will emulate their win at Olimpico and put us level against them on points and head to head points and goal difference, only we will in case of a 2-1 victory have better total goal difference, or in a case of a 2-0, 3-1 victory better head to head goal difference.

So the only thing we have to avoid (apart from drawing or losing obviously) is a 1-0 victory, as they will be better than us considering they scored twice at Olimpico.

@ Kris X=

_________________
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Last edited by Sile on Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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Kris
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PostSubject: Re: Raid on Salzburg!!!   Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:52 am

Sile wrote:
If it comes to be that we have equal points with Villa and RB while Villareal also have 12 points but better head to head with us and RB, then what will be looked at is our head to head with RB and then our total goal diff vs their total goal diff.

Quote :
b) superior goal difference from the group matches played among the teams
in question
This doesn't relate to us-Villa-RB relation but to us and RB meaning if we win 2-0 we are better anyway because vs us they scored 2 and conceded 3, so point C
Quote :
c) higher number of goals scored away from home in the group matches
played among the teams in question;
Meaning if we win 3-2 away the goal diff would be the same only we scored more goals away.

So 2-0 gets us through based on point b, 3-2 gets us through on point C.

If 1/2x +1/2(1/2x + 1/2(1/2x +1/2(1/2x + ... = y,
then x = ?
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Matrim
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PostSubject: Re: Raid on Salzburg!!!   Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:57 am

What makes you think that? I think the rule is perfectly clear, it calls for calculation of the GD between the teams in questions. Nothing whatsoever is mentioned about the bottom two in this mini-table only counting the games between themselves and not the top one.

But it's all probably a moot point anyway, as we won't win in Saltzburg. When was the last time we won a decisive group game in a European competition? Against Chelsea away in 2000?
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Terry
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PostSubject: Re: Raid on Salzburg!!!   Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:04 am

let me put it in this way

if 12 pts for all at the end, meaing uefa will need to compare goal difference among them

let's assume we will defeat bulls for 2-0 and villareal will defeat bulls for 1-0.



lazio (goals scored)1+2+1+2=6 (goals conceded)2+1+4+0=7 (outright result)6-7=-1

bulls (goals scored)2+2+0+0=4 (goals conceded)1+0+2+1=4 (outright result)4-4=0

villa (goals scored)0+1+4+1=6 (goals conceded)2+1+1+0=4 (outright result)6-4=2

WE'd be FXCK'D


Last edited by Terry on Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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Sile
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PostSubject: Re: Raid on Salzburg!!!   Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:04 am

You said it yourself, when two or more teams have the same nr of points then:
1) first criteria -points obtained from head to head matches - we're all even
2) 2nd criteria- goal diff in head to head matches - so Villa would be safe there if they win i.e. 2-0 against RB, and all we need is to win while scoring 2 or more goals
3) 3rd criteria - total goal diff- in case Villa beat RB 2-0, and we beat RB 2-1, then RB/Villa is out because they only scored twice/once against Levski, and so far we scored 4 with a game in hand. Villa would need to beat Levski with a two goal margin to be safe.

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Terry
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PostSubject: Re: Raid on Salzburg!!!   Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:07 am

Sile wrote:
You said it yourself, when two or more teams have the same nr of points then:
1) first criteria -points obtained from head to head matches - we're all even
2) 2nd criteria- goal diff in head to head matches - so Villa would be safe there if they win i.e. 2-0 against RB, and all we need is to win while scoring 2 or more goals
3) 3rd criteria - total goal diff- in case Villa beat RB 2-0, and we beat RB 2-1, then RB/Villa is out because they only scored twice/once against Levski, and so far we scored 4 with a game in hand. Villa would need to beat Levski with a two goal margin to be safe.

what he said was among the teams NOT head to head.
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Sile
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PostSubject: Re: Raid on Salzburg!!!   Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:16 am

But what does it concern us what the results were between RB and Villa. It's a question of 2 teams progressing out of 3, not a battle for 2nd place between 3 teams. It would be unfair, and against the rules, to allow RB to progress while we have better head to head than them and then taking into consideration the goal diff between RB and Villa but not the goal diff between Levski and the others.
It doesn't make sense as that would mean we could beat Levski 100-0 and still fail to progress even while having the same head to head with RB, same points and a way better goal diff. Where's the logic in that?

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frederick
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PostSubject: Re: Raid on Salzburg!!!   Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:24 am

I'd like to think positive, but they way we are playing at the moment, maybe.. just maybe we'd better off concentrating on Serie A. Qualify for Europe League is a bonus, but seeing Lazio playing in Serie B next season??? Unbareable!!! No

But hey, for those of you who lives in Switzerland or Italy, go and make some noise, mathematically we are still in it..

Non Mollare Mai
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Bridge-Bhoy
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PostSubject: Re: Raid on Salzburg!!!   Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:38 pm

Just gotta hope Levski are hungry for there first point (s) of the tournament and can hold Villarreal.
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Sile
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PostSubject: Re: Raid on Salzburg!!!   Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:12 pm

So, the question remains open- if anyone is willing to come then let's get together and help Lazio. The game is on 2 December at 19:00, I'll be coming to Salzburg at 14:00 via train, so that leaves 5 hours for "warm-up".

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zrc
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PostSubject: Re: Raid on Salzburg!!!   Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:07 pm

Sile what about the TICKETS?=)
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forzalazio
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PostSubject: Re: Raid on Salzburg!!!   Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:13 pm

I called the Red Bull Ticket shop they said tickets will be on sail on matchday at the stadium!
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