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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: A real relegation battle   Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:12 pm

Jofo wrote:
Let me be your Sancho Panza, Caxi. Damn those windmills.

The word is ínsula, Sancho Very Happy
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Caput Mundi
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PostSubject: Re: A real relegation battle   Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:15 pm

Sile wrote:
blue-white wrote:
Quote :
Just the sale of Kolarov and Zarate would bring him 30-35 million €

he would not get so much money for 2 Serie B players. No cub president in the world will spend so much when he knows that the players want away and their president has to sell them...and I´m sure that in their contracts stands that they can go for cheaper if Lazio get relegated.

TV rights are not peanuts.

You think that Lazio would have 30.000 people in the stadium in Serie B?! - Then I say - let´s go there because we don´t have them in Serie A.

Look HERE. AT the end of the site - there stands: SPETTATORI: 5014

against Chievo: 2842
Lazio - Parma in Sept.: 30000...long time ago and the team was not as worst as now.

If you think that 30.000 are coming to a Serie B game - you live in a dreamworld. Sorry man - Serie B games - we would have 1000. Nothing more.

Don't think I'm arguing with you but:

1) He doesn't have to sell anyone if he does not want to. (or if there's a contract clause)
2) TV rights are peanuts. Lotito had to take the TV rights in advance for the next 3-4 years to pay the Zarate transfer so how much can it be? 4-5 mill max per year.

3) As Caput Mundi said (and me before him) we are averaging 30,000 people per game. Most of them are probably season ticket holders but anyway, but that's a decent sum but still nothing to make a big fuss about, long term maybe but a season in B with little spectators wouldn't hurt lotito's pocket that much.

And just another thing, people were coming in tens of thousands to watch Fiorentina's and Napoli's games in serie B, what makes you think laziali are less devoted and loyal.

No way. TV rights are much much more than that.

I remember a few years back the smallest clubs would get around 15 million euro and the giants were getting 150 million. We'd be somewhere in between.

If we go down to B though, we'll get peanuts.

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blue-white
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PostSubject: Re: A real relegation battle   Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:23 pm

Quote :
And just another thing, people were coming in tens of thousands to watch Fiorentina's and Napoli's games in serie B, what makes you think laziali are less devoted and loyal.

point for you!

Quote :
rights are peanuts. Lotito had to take the TV rights in advance for the next 3-4 years to pay the Zarate transfer so how much can it be? 4-5 mill max per year.

No! TV rights are no peanuts. As caput mundi said - it´s much more. Serie B clubs always protest against the high level TV money for the Serie A clubs.

Quote :
1) He doesn't have to sell anyone if he does not want to. (or if there's a contract clause)

I´m not sure, but I think that most of the players have a contract clause which says that they can leave for peanuts if the club gets relegated.
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Jofo
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PostSubject: Re: A real relegation battle   Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:27 pm

WTF, this thread is so sick. Are we talking what will happen if we are relegated. Will Lotito sell in seria B or not.

Mah, fuck off.
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Sile
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PostSubject: Re: A real relegation battle   Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:32 pm

As far as I remember there were the ones getting shitloads of money (Juve, Inter, Milan), some middle class that we belonged to and the bottomdwellers getting peanuts.
But I don't know if that system is still at work, since some teams made arrangements with Sky and soem didn't, so if someone has the data please correct me, I know my figure is too low but it was taken in the context of the Zarate purchase.

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Jofo
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PostSubject: Re: A real relegation battle   Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:37 pm

@Sile

Forty percent of the TV revenue will go to all Serie A clubs, while 30% will be based on final-table standing and 30% on fan following, both on a sliding scale.
I believe that total amount of money given is around 900m euros.
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Caput Mundi
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PostSubject: Re: A real relegation battle   Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:39 pm

Sile wrote:
As far as I remember there were the ones getting shitloads of money (Juve, Inter, Milan), some middle class that we belonged to and the bottomdwellers getting peanuts.
But I don't know if that system is still at work, since some teams made arrangements with Sky and soem didn't, so if someone has the data please correct me, I know my figure is too low but it was taken in the context of the Zarate purchase.

It's irrelevant anyway. Next season things are done collectively so the share will be more even, as Jofo says.

Serie B clubs are being cut loose (which is disgraceful, but that's another debate). The 3 teams that go down this season are going to have an extra nail in their coffins.

But I still don't think that will make Lotito sell.

Lotito will only leave if the politicians in Rome remove him. How this will be achieved I don't have a fucking clue, but that is the only way.

Don't even want to think about bankruptcy...110 years of history washed away in an instant.

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LazioS70
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PostSubject: Re: A real relegation battle   Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:40 pm

I must say that we have a lot of players that cost peanuts even without relegation. Many of them are in the starting eleven. I wont mention any specific names.
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Conn
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PostSubject: Re: A real relegation battle   Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:54 pm

Caxi wrote:


The only person I recall mentioning the distinct possibility of relegation in pre-season was me, although Conn will have you believe otherwise.


I've already told you, m'hai rotto il ca***!!!

Why do you insist? We have all read what you said about the "wonders of Ballardini" ( Very Happy ) , about the "competitiveness" the team ( Very Happy ), the no-need of the dissidenti and the way this issue was handled ( Very Happy ), the strange balance sheet data ( Very Happy ) and more jewels...
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El Weninho
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PostSubject: Re: A real relegation battle   Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:23 am

No problems using me as an example Caxi, but I don't understand why you drag this up now. And I don't understand why you question some arguments I never had. I'm to proud not to defend myself so let's take it part by part Very Happy

Caxi wrote:
Pandev - this has already been discussed. You described to me in private that you felt Cruz was potentially the best acquisition of the Lotito era and now we also have Floccari in attack. Is Goran that great a loss?

I still feel Cruz was one of the best acquisition - on paper - during the Lotito era. And I also said just some weeks ago that the only thing I can accept from the management is the transfer campaign regarding the strikers. It was not perfect to loose Pandev, but Cruz was an excellent signing if he had to be replaced. You have to remember that when we talked about this in private, the Pandev situation was not very clear and I still calculated on a new signing (a defender) for some of the Pandev-money that never came.

Caxi wrote:
Rozehnal - Couldn't cut it in England's top tier, made countless mistakes for us and his highlight in Germany is getting ludicrously sent off in a prominent Derby and costing his team a vital victory. Not needed.

Cribari - I'm probably the only one here who stuck by this kid but after constant abuse, I can't blame him for going elsewhere.

De Silvestri - Not as good as Lichti, not as talented as Faraoni so other than his Lazialita', I feel he had little to offer.

Now, we also have Biava, Dias, Hitzlsperger...the difference in quality for me is minimal from how we ended last season and how we started against Catania.

Rozehnal: I disagree. Not that I deny he has his limitations as a footballer but because I think it says it all that he was a starter in Lazio. And I don’t care what he did in the other clubs but only what he did in Lazio, which was better then Cribari and Diakité according to Delio Rossi. Do you really defend the decision to sell him and not sign a replacement during the summer?

Cribari: I think he deserved a better good buy, but if Rozehnal made mistakes, then what did Cribari do?

De Silvestri: Isn’t Lazialitá what this team desperately need to perform? How else is it possible to explain us going to Champions League and winning a lot of derbys? Apparently he had something to offer to Fiorentina that bough him for pretty big money. But we have Scaloni that didn’t even got the chance when Licht wasn’t available. Our dept was ridicules. About Faraonis talent I can’t comment because I have not seen him enough.

Biava, Dias and Hitzlsperger: That they were signed in January only confirms what was so obvious already in summer. If a mechanic fails to switch a broken tyre during the first pit stop in a Formal 1 race – but does it in the fallowing one – should he be happy with his job?

Caxi wrote:
How can people criticise Baronio? He gives his all and we don't have another regista who is "available" apparently so what are we supposed to do?

How can people criticise Firmani? He gives 100%, oozes Lazialita' and is the only option we have since Brocchi and Dabo can't stay fit for more than a week this season.

How can people criticise Mauri? We don't have a natural trequartista, Foggia is a moody so-and-so and Matuzalem can't stay fit. Ok, so Stefano misses chances, perhaps you should appreciate the effort and intelligence behind his ability to find himself in such positions.

Are you still talking to me? I don’t like the term "people" because it’s very generalizing. Also impossible for me to comment, because the only one I criticized above is Baronio. Not for his devotion, but for his lack of quality. I’m probably the only one you will find in this forum that defended Mauri all along so if that one is directed at me I find it unfair.

You’re missing the point. It’s not about what they do, it’s about no players being bought to replace them. And it’s about Lotito destroying Ledesma’s career and Lazio’s season. If I remember it correctly (tell me if I’m wrong) you agreed when I said last season that Ledesma is one of the best two way players in the whole league and that we would miss his services. Impossible to replace with Baronio, isn't it?

Caxi wrote:
There are a million-and-one reasons behind what Sile would describe as a clusterfuck of a season but no point in people coming around here and saying the saw it coming.

The only person I recall mentioning the distinct possibility of relegation in pre-season was me, although Conn will have you believe otherwise.

Again, "people" is me? My aim is not to say in public I saw it coming. I don’t remember if you said that there was a possibility of a relegation or not, the only thing I remember is that we had some discussions about whether the players that left had been replaced in an acceptable way or not. And to be honest I think the first half of the season speaks in my favor Very Happy

Caxi wrote:
I'd rather we prepared for battle instead of sitting here and saying it was always going to be this way; because it wasn't and it doesn't have to be.

That’s your opinion but it’s not a fact. I didn’t think it was going to be this bad, but I was prepared for a bad season.

Of course we’re gonna battle for this one, like we did in 110 years. It’s in our nature. But if we win it, what says it’s going to be better next year? And the one after that? The most important battle is to let the eagle out.

Also sorry in advance for my tone in this post. It's nothing personal. It's just that I was a bit surprised by your post.
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Il Capitano
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PostSubject: Re: A real relegation battle   Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:32 pm

This Lazialità thing you mentioned, I think it's just not realistic. Players should be on the team for their class, not because they like the club. If we only had Firmanis on the pitch, then we'd relegate for sure. In this world of football we are far away from having players love their club. In goal we got one guy from Uruguay and one from Argentina, on defense one from Romania, Serbia and Brazil, in the midfield some Swiss dude, a German and a French player and so on... Football is a business. What we need is good players who perform well.
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blue-white
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PostSubject: Re: A real relegation battle   Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:40 pm

But you also need someone who is able to represent the club. Someone who has big balls.

In my opinion it need not to be an italian player or someone from the city of rom. If he´s italian, it´s better but it need not to be.

In our squad there are many fighters who can get in such a position. It´s clear that we have no Di Canio but the nearest one can be Rocchi. For me personally - he´s too quiet.

If Matuzalem would play more, he would be the right man for showing big balls on the pitch. I hope that he´s playing soon and doesn´t get injured for longer time any more.
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Caput Mundi
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PostSubject: Re: A real relegation battle   Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:47 pm

Il Capitano wrote:
This Lazialità thing you mentioned, I think it's just not realistic. Players should be on the team for their class, not because they like the club. If we only had Firmanis on the pitch, then we'd relegate for sure. In this world of football we are far away from having players love their club. In goal we got one guy from Uruguay and one from Argentina, on defense one from Romania, Serbia and Brazil, in the midfield some Swiss dude, a German and a French player and so on... Football is a business. What we need is good players who perform well.

That "swiss dude" has plenty of lazialita' I would say, no? One of the Brazilians has also shown on plenty of occasions he has some lazialita' also. I've seen some lazialita' from the Romanian guy too. Having a bandiera like Firmani is great, and he is a legend, but I believe foreigners too can form a connection to the city and the colours and show some lazialita'.

Unfortunately, due to his lazialita' the Swiss dude was left in the tribuna on Sunday.

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Il Capitano
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PostSubject: Re: A real relegation battle   Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:06 pm

Yeah, the Swiss dude showed some balls and parts of Lazialità and because of that went to the stands. So you see how much it helps, not at all with Lotito as a president.
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Caput Mundi
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PostSubject: Re: A real relegation battle   Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:11 pm

Il Capitano wrote:
Yeah, the Swiss dude showed some balls and parts of Lazialità and because of that went to the stands. So you see how much it helps, not at all with Lotito as a president.

Exactly. That's why the problem IMO is not a lack of players with lazialita' because they are there, but the man running the club is trying to eradicate lazialita'.

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Sile
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PostSubject: Re: A real relegation battle   Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:43 pm

400 fans gathered at Formello to have their say about this situation, the usual chants but also a contest with Rocchi and Matuzalem.

Hoping for better days...

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Caput Mundi
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PostSubject: Re: A real relegation battle   Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:16 pm

Sile wrote:
400 fans gathered at Formello to have their say about this situation, the usual chants but also a contest with Rocchi and Matuzalem.

Hoping for better days...

Up to 1000 fans now. Dunno why Matuzalem was challenged though??

There's an empty stadium protest planned for the next home game with Fiorentina as well. I really like the idea, but its important everyone participates, not just those in the Curva and distinti ovest.

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Ermetico
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PostSubject: Re: A real relegation battle   Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:25 pm

A group of fans have jumped inside the gates. In this moments there are some troubles with the cops.

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Ramone
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PostSubject: Re: A real relegation battle   Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:57 pm

Ermetico wrote:
A group of fans have jumped inside the gates. In this moments there are some troubles with the cops.

And now what Italian Laziali want? Reja will be arriving soon and Ballardini has been sacked. So?

Oh I got it, they want Lottio to get out and sell La Lazio. From now on, what will can do is support our new coach and hoping the best for the upcoming match. scratch
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Secret_Samadhi
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PostSubject: Re: A real relegation battle   Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:19 pm

Caput Mundi wrote:


Up to 1000 fans now. Dunno why Matuzalem was challenged though??

There's an empty stadium protest planned for the next home game with Fiorentina as well. I really like the idea, but its important everyone participates, not just those in the Curva and distinti ovest.

I dunno, maybe cuz he is allways injured scratch

I like the idea about empty stadium aswell, but like you said it's important that everybody is in that.
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phantomm1976
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PostSubject: Re: A real relegation battle   Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:32 am

empty stadium and 35ooo or 4oooo fans watching game together in the street
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: A real relegation battle   Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:37 pm

Lazio - Fiorentina
Sampdoria - Lazio
Lazio - Bari
Lazio - Siena


4 key games before Milan, 1 down, 1 point. I said prior to the Viola that we need 7 points from 4 games. We could and probably should have 3 with 4 more to obtain; now we need 6.

In other words, we have to win 2 out of 3, to put us on 32 points and needing only 2-3 wins in our last 9 fixtures. We have to go to Genoa for three points and take the pressure off the other two ties, otherwise, Bari and Siena at the Olimpico becomes our two most important games in recent history.

I can't emphasise enough how important it is that we are on 32 points prior to our trip to Milan; I think if we are on anything less, we will have to save our backsides on the final day, at best.

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PostSubject: Re: A real relegation battle   Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:30 am

"Le tabelle portano sfiga, io me gratto i coglioni" Very Happy

Despite the draw against Fiorentina, we gained one point over Atalanta (2nd last, defeated by AC Milan) and one point over Livorno (3rd last, home defeat against bottom of the table Siena).

That's the only thing I say about our "relegation battle" for today.
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Sile
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PostSubject: Re: A real relegation battle   Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:45 am

But we were leapfrogged by Udinese who won on Wednesday and Catania who won yesterday so we made one step forward and two steps back.

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PostSubject: Re: A real relegation battle   Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:40 pm

We are 3 points clear. Thats all that counts. As long as teams behind us drop points we have a chance to stay up, and we need to focus on picking up some pointe here, and a few points there. It will be a tough spring, but we can do it. Maybe it will be the last game, home against udine, that will be the decisive game this year...
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