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 What is really a Ultra-supporter??

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Mr.Andersson
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PostSubject: What is really a Ultra-supporter??   Sat Apr 03, 2010 2:07 pm

Ok, ragazzi. This is a question I have been wondering of a while and I think I have some kind of personal definition...
I'll share it later on here...

But I want to know what your views are in the topic.
Is it a about love, violence or if you know all the songs????

Share your definition and explenation about what a "ultra-supporter" is TO YOU!


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hamidsinisa
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PostSubject: Re: What is really a Ultra-supporter??   Sat Apr 03, 2010 2:50 pm

Ultra supporter?

hmmm.. It's me!
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Nickx13
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PostSubject: Re: What is really a Ultra-supporter??   Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:37 pm

Strange question. However, what do you mean? A real Ultra like the boys from BN or just a die hard fan?
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Mr.Andersson
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PostSubject: Re: What is really a Ultra-supporter??   Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:08 pm

Yes, that is why I am asking! cheers

I think that a Ultra-supporter does not have to be a BN-supporter and that kind of behaviour, but instead someone how lives with the team in its mind every day.
Can that be a Ultrasupporter?

I think the question is relevant as we often talk about "Ultras" here and there, but with no explanetion what is really is.

Do you agree?

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Nickx13
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PostSubject: Re: What is really a Ultra-supporter??   Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:18 pm

Yes, I agree, mate. My opinion is that only the guys from, for example, BN deserve the name Ultra. The word says it, "Ultra", beyond the limit. Without disrespecting the people who are really living for a club without loving the violence, ofcourse.
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William-85
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PostSubject: Re: What is really a Ultra-supporter??   Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:50 pm

Violence has nothing to do with being an Ultra.

For me its the never ending support,the displays,the singing,the choreography!!! Simply amazing!

A lot of people think the word ultra means football thug.Thats a shame right there.

Thats just a few thoughts but theres a lot more to it than my few words.
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William-85
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PostSubject: Re: What is really a Ultra-supporter??   Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:27 am

Nickx13 wrote:
The word says it, "Ultra", beyond the limit.

Yes, beyond.To stand with pride,to sing with passion,to wave your scarf with belief, win lose or draw from start to finish, that is beyond the limit of a normal football fan.

Just another few thoughts,muddled thoughts maybe.Maybe not. Very Happy


Last edited by William-85 on Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:29 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : REASONS UNKNOWN)
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Nickx13
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PostSubject: Re: What is really a Ultra-supporter??   Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:53 pm

William-85 wrote:
Violence has nothing to do with being an Ultra.

For me its the never ending support,the displays,the singing,the choreography!!! Simply amazing!

A lot of people think the word ultra means football thug.Thats a shame right there.

Thats just a few thoughts but theres a lot more to it than my few words.

You're absolutely right, William, but in that case I prefer the name "die hard fan", not Ultra. For me, the word Ultra is something that separates a group of fans from the other "normal" fans. But again, without disrespecting the thousands of people who are living for a club without loving the violence. And I don't want to say that the violence's always correct, but, I think, it's also a shame that most people think that the "veri Ultras" are just a group of "rioting idiots", but that's another discussion.
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William-85
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PostSubject: Re: What is really a Ultra-supporter??   Fri Apr 09, 2010 3:57 pm

Nickx13 wrote:

You're absolutely right, William, but in that case I prefer the name "die hard fan", not Ultra.

Well thats where are opinions differ.

Mr Andersson..... whats your view?Care to share?
Nobody seems bothered with this topic,maybe they are waiting for your input.
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William-85
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PostSubject: Re: What is really a Ultra-supporter??   Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:01 am

Anyone got an opinion on this???

Im interested to know myself what you yourselves think.This topic has recieved 137 views yet only 4 people post. scratch Lose your typing skills? Very Happy
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Conn
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PostSubject: Re: What is really a Ultra-supporter??   Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:32 am

William-85 wrote:
Anyone got an opinion on this???

Im interested to know myself what you yourselves think.This topic has recieved 137 views yet only 4 people post. scratch Lose your typing skills? Very Happy

You are right William. I've read the topic yesterday but didn't reply... because it's not a question you can answer with just a post... even if an articulate one.

I promise I'll be back to this thread soon (perhaps it should be moved), but in the meantime, to keep it short, I am on the same line as Nickx13. Strictly speaking, an Ultras is different from a Die-hard fan and in many things. If we wanted to be precise, we should also distinguish between "Ultras" and "Ultrà" as they were two different kind of fans going-beyond, and there were examples of both in Italy. For instance, until recent years, roma hardcore fans were "Ultrà", Lazios have always been "Ultras".
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Sile
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PostSubject: Re: What is really a Ultra-supporter??   Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:44 am

Club first, everything else second.

Sacrifice of time, money, nerves, health, social life to support the team. Collecting every penny and using it for away matches, banners, etc. Core of the supporters.

Living with the club in mind 24/7. A sense of belonging and relation to others who do the same. Rivalry, but respect to other ultras group when and if they deserve it.

Not coming to the game just to watch the game, but to be the 12th player. Meaning singing louder when the team is losing than when the team is winning.

Opposition to "calcio moderno", the merchandise sellers, advertising agents, money makers, merc players etc.

No compromise, and no hiding of who they are, meaning getting into trouble and fights with rival fans.

Just so no-one thinks I'm painting them as saints, other aspects of behavior aren't that great. By this I mean organized fights, violent behavior, destruction of public/private property etc.


There's much more. This is just so Willy does not get his knickers in a twist.

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William-85
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PostSubject: Re: What is really a Ultra-supporter??   Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:56 am

hahaha ...... not to worry Sile, im just curious.I guess the question im driving at is do you think ultras are a bunch of thugs who live for violence?When i've asked people what do you think ultras are they almost always give me the same reply: football thugs.

The violence is just some of the bad that comes with the good.Cant be helped I suppose, but the good by far over comes the bad.

And yes as i've said before, theres a lot more to it than what little opinions I offer.
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Caput Mundi
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PostSubject: Re: What is really a Ultra-supporter??   Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:55 am

Sile wrote:
Club first, everything else second.

Sacrifice of time, money, nerves, health, social life to support the team. Collecting every penny and using it for away matches, banners, etc. Core of the supporters.

Living with the club in mind 24/7. A sense of belonging and relation to others who do the same. Rivalry, but respect to other ultras group when and if they deserve it.

Not coming to the game just to watch the game, but to be the 12th player. Meaning singing louder when the team is losing than when the team is winning.

Opposition to "calcio moderno", the merchandise sellers, advertising agents, money makers, merc players etc.


No compromise, and no hiding of who they are, meaning getting into trouble and fights with rival fans.

Just so no-one thinks I'm painting them as saints, other aspects of behavior aren't that great. By this I mean organized fights, violent behavior, destruction of public/private property etc.


There's much more. This is just so Willy does not get his knickers in a twist.

Although some ultras sell their own merchandise, something I'm not a fan of to be honest.

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Jofo
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PostSubject: Re: What is really a Ultra-supporter??   Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:19 am

Caput Mundi wrote:

Although some ultras sell their own merchandise, something I'm not a fan of to be honest.

THIS!!!
I hate when they profit out of club popularity and put themselves above the club.
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Sile
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PostSubject: Re: What is really a Ultra-supporter??   Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:24 am

I do not think ultras shouldn't make and sell gear that makes them stand out against other groups, but the money earned should be spent on away matches, coreo, banners, flares, and charity work. Not use the money for personal profit. No one expects them to do all without compensation for their hard work, effort and material, but more and more "professional ultras" emerge.

To answer your question Will, I don't consider them violent thugs. At least not Lazio's. But for instance there are "ultra" groups in i.e. Poland or Netherlands who I think use football as an excuse for violence and rioting, painting it honorable when it's unarmed group v group in the streets or parks. Those are a threat. You know all this.
All the ultras I know are fun loving good guys. But I've had run ins with the not so smiling fellas.


I don't consider myself an "ultra" and I don't think anyone else considers me one either. Over the years I've become too conformist and responsible (to my job, family, girlfriend).

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Caput Mundi
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PostSubject: Re: What is really a Ultra-supporter??   Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:44 am

Sile wrote:
I do not think ultras shouldn't make and sell gear that makes them stand out against other groups, but the money earned should be spent on away matches, coreo, banners, flares, and charity work. Not use the money for personal profit. No one expects them to do all without compensation for their hard work, effort and material, but more and more "professional ultras" emerge.

Ultras have expenses, obviously, as travelling and money for displays etc is not cheap, nor is running radio programs.

I don't like how, for example, a tourist, or even a fan who is not ultra in any way can get their hands on ultras merchandise. An ultras scarf is not a Lazio scarf, and shouldn't be worn by just anyone, but only a member of that particular ultras group. If that makes sense.

If they sold unofficial Lazio scarves, with good messages written like "non mollare mai" or "la prima squadra della capitale" etc, that's fine. The more biancoceleste the better. But as you said, not their actual gear.

It cheapens their own image anyway. And how can you be against modern football when you're profiting from your own gear.

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Sile
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PostSubject: Re: What is really a Ultra-supporter??   Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:28 pm

That's the way it is unfortunately. Not a day goes by that I don't see guys posing as some sort of ultras, you know the type wearing white shoes, black shirts (with ultra logos), jeans, Fred Perry or Lacoste caps acting all "casual" and flashing mean looks across the street, but come a game they're nowhere to be seen on the stadium, especially if the team that's playing isn't Hajduk Split or it's a European game.

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Mr.Andersson
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PostSubject: Re: What is really a Ultra-supporter??   Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:48 am

I like this discussion. Why I opened it was to see others points of view, not only maine which I have already explained. For me, an Ultra does not have to be a person who is involved in violence, but it is enough to live with your team every day.
Like you already have explain, it is to be more then just a fan. But what does "more" mean in this case?
Hey guys, maybe this is more of a philopsofic question with now real answer, only opinions?

I fully respect others opinions and I can see all of your points.



"Am I an Ultra?"

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