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 Lotito trial against Irriducibili

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Giolazio
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PostSubject: Re: Lotito trial against Irriducibili   Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:42 pm

I never disagreed with you so lose the sarcasm, i'm simply stating that any person would do what he is doing, even if as Conn said he was forced into buying the club because he has already invested alot of money(forced or not) so why would he then sit back and let it go down the toilet. I'm trying to stay neutral in this arguement.

Can you honestly say there's nothing fishy about the guy. How about the fact that most of Serie A won't do business with guy because he is so unprossional in his acts. How about how he has isolated players under contract by leaving them out of the training camp? He may have "saved" our club but you can't deny he did it purely for selfless reasons.

Anyway it's a pointless arguement, it's just a difference of opinion.
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Conn
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PostSubject: Re: Lotito trial against Irriducibili   Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:03 pm

No hard feelings from my part too, Lucky Strike. I also am here to explain my reasons in the friendliest possible way. I think the situation is very simple: the fans are divided, in the stadium as well as in the forums.

Honestly, I don't think there is much space for changing his own mind, and I dislike these discussions.

One day the truth about lotito will come up, and we'll see if he really was a saviour, as you say, or an asshole, as I firmly believe.
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Lotito trial against Irriducibili   Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:33 pm

The thing with Lotito is, for me, it is those closest to the club who have issues with Lotito and those further afield seem more tolerant of him.

Some of us have been in a relationship with someone where we have fallen madly in love with them and everything about them, yet our friends see the relationship as being negative and wrong. It's only when things really go wrong that we realise our friends were right all along and we pull away.

Some of us have been in relationships where the couple are madly in love but yet their friends see the relationship as being negative and wrong and it turns out that our friends are wrong and the relationship lasts and is happy for its duration.

I see the laziales who are in the Stadio, who are able to be fully involved with Lazio as being part of an arranged marriage with Lotito and Lazio. I, one of the far off fans, are like the friends, looking upon those laziales who are so in love with the club that perhaps they can't see the real facts. On the other hand, perhaps they are the only ones who can see what Lotito is really like.

We'll only ever understand when the relationship comes to an end.

My view is that Lotito is beneficial for Lazio and Lazio for Lotito. It is a relationship that works well for club and president, but the fans? that's a different story, and a complex one too. don't forget, the fans are the heart of any club.
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PostSubject: Re: Lotito trial against Irriducibili   Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:18 pm

Giolazio wrote:
I never disagreed with you so lose the sarcasm, i'm simply stating that any person would do what he is doing, even if as Conn said he was forced into buying the club because he has already invested alot of money(forced or not) so why would he then sit back and let it go down the toilet. I'm trying to stay neutral in this arguement.

Can you honestly say there's nothing fishy about the guy. How about the fact that most of Serie A won't do business with guy because he is so unprossional in his acts. How about how he has isolated players under contract by leaving them out of the training camp? He may have "saved" our club but you can't deny he did it purely for selfless reasons.

Anyway it's a pointless arguement, it's just a difference of opinion.

Apologies for the sarcasm, it wasn't necessary but I suppose we're all getting a slightly bit tired with this Lotito stuff. And that's an understatement.

Of course Lotito does not have a lot of charisma and he does have something dodgy about him, and he probably isn't the most 'clean' business man (who is) - but what the hell. Thing is, I refuse to take part in the whole Lotito-bashing that has been going on for months and months, partly because most people don't have a clue why they are hating this man, but mostly because I simply don't agree.
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Giolazio
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PostSubject: Re: Lotito trial against Irriducibili   Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:00 pm

Lucky Strike wrote:
Giolazio wrote:
I never disagreed with you so lose the sarcasm, i'm simply stating that any person would do what he is doing, even if as Conn said he was forced into buying the club because he has already invested alot of money(forced or not) so why would he then sit back and let it go down the toilet. I'm trying to stay neutral in this arguement.

Can you honestly say there's nothing fishy about the guy. How about the fact that most of Serie A won't do business with guy because he is so unprossional in his acts. How about how he has isolated players under contract by leaving them out of the training camp? He may have "saved" our club but you can't deny he did it purely for selfless reasons.

Anyway it's a pointless arguement, it's just a difference of opinion.

Apologies for the sarcasm, it wasn't necessary but I suppose we're all getting a slightly bit tired with this Lotito stuff. And that's an understatement.

Of course Lotito does not have a lot of charisma and he does have something dodgy about him, and he probably isn't the most 'clean' business man (who is) - but what the hell. Thing is, I refuse to take part in the whole Lotito-bashing that has been going on for months and months, partly because most people don't have a clue why they are hating this man, but mostly because I simply don't agree.

It's cool, and I completely agree. It's true that so many people are totaly against Lotito just because some people said he's to blame or what and that's really silly. I remember there was a member here, when he joined his banner was "Grazie Lotito" and after a few days was signing all his posts with "Lotito Merda" Very Happy Crazy!
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Sile
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PostSubject: Re: Lotito trial against Irriducibili   Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:07 pm

Do you know how Grand Canyon was formed?

Lotito accidentally dropped a penny in the sand Twisted Evil


Now go on and fight for 20 more pages about that tongue jocolor

There was, is, and will be a difference of opinion regarding Lotito's running/ruining of the club.
What I think we can all agree on is that he is way to stubborn to change his act and that only time will show if he'll make or break us.

And also time is an important factor in this trial, since bureacracy and justice is slow and in Italy there is a whole new dimension to that statement, so, innocent until proven guilty, for both parties, atleast in my book.

Peace

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Laziophilic
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PostSubject: Re: Lotito trial against Irriducibili   Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:33 pm

Lotito, IRRC, and Chineglia is something like the good, the bad, and the ugly the moment!!

I do hate Lotito for many things, yet I can make a confession he did some good things for Lazio regardless of those allegations. The IRR have the power as they lead the fans with those banners, themes, and protests against Lotito for the past 2 years not to forget they thretend Lotito family if he did not sell Lazio to the mafia!! The truth is that they are fools to me at the moment because they were used as tools by the Mafia to get their ultimate goal, to take on Lazio where they will make money landuray!! It is a disasterous act that could effectively finish Lazio if Lotito sold Lazio to Chinglia's fake group that was only mafia.

The thing that we should wait for is: was the IRR aware about this mafia stuff or not! Chineglia said he was not aware even though I dont believe how a legend in Lazio history could particpate in those acts, the mafia did a good job by gathering Lazio legend along the powerful fans to put the heavy pressure on Lotito to sell the club.

Lotito's era will be just a history and his talk about forever president is bullshit talk beacuse if any potential buyer emerge he will be forced to sell because at the end of the day he is a business man rather than a a true fan!!
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Giolazio
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PostSubject: Re: Lotito trial against Irriducibili   Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:05 am

I'm convinced Chinaglia is innocent. He was just a pawn, it would be suicide to go into something like that with the full knowledge of what was going on. Maybe if the Camorra was buying Roma...he is a Lazio legend for goodness sake.

As for the IRR, I think they are just so desparate to get rid of Lotito that if Ronald McDonald waved some cash they would try and force Lotito to sell. I don't think they knew it was Camorra either, why would they want them in Lazio?
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NMH
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PostSubject: Re: Lotito trial against Irriducibili   Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:54 pm

I am with Lucky Strike on most of this.

Claudio Lotito has many flaws and can be blamed for many things: His stubbornness, his ability to get enemies everywhere, his pissing off agents, his penny-pinching, his inability to close transferdeals (although he is getting better at that), his forcing old Lazio-icons out of the club. All of that are bad sides of Lotito and they can really hurt Lazio if they aren't handled well.

But he also gets blamed for way more than he deserves. Oddo wants to go to Milan and everyone chants 'Lotito vattene' and what not. It seems some people just jump on the 'I hate Lotito'-bandwagon because that's what the 'cool' guys do. It's cool to be a rebel.

People tend to forget that he saved saved Lazio from bankruptcy by buying into the club and now he is making the club into a sound running firm, meanwhile shelling out his own money to make the squad competitive. This summer alone we have gotten a real gem in Zarate and he has just secured Pandev on a new deal with a hefty payrise.

Some people claim that he is only out to make a personal investment out of Lazio, but I find that hard to believe seing how he is pouring out money for transfers and wages right now. If he was only out to make a dollar he could have just sold off Lazio to what has now been revealed as a mafia group wanting Lazzio to lauder money and with IRR and Chinaglia in some kind of weird role. I thank heavens that Lotito didn't go for it. It would have ment the end for Lazio.

The IRR's war with Lotito is ridiculous in many ways. They say they protest against Lotito, but in many ways their protests are hurting Lazio more. The atmosphere in the stadium is just one example. I for one is grateful that he has taken steps to minimize their power and influence on Lazio.

He should be blamed for many things but too many forget what good he has also done for the club.
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usampa
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PostSubject: Re: Lotito trial against Irriducibili   Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:04 pm

Quote :
Some people claim that he is only out to make a personal investment out of Lazio

Well it is hardly to see someone president or owner who is not trying to dig money from football nowadays. It is strictly business , I don't know why Lotito is dealing with Lazio, because of passion and business or just for business.....
It is obvious that he wants to get destination of use of his lands, because of Lazio and to build little city and stadium. If that happened , Lotito would become richer , but on the other hand , it would mean more sunny days for SS Lazio. If you want to gain something, you should give something first.
There are so many forthcoming things, that will give us the reason to judge him for good or for bad. For now he has made some mistakes and some goodness. From the very bad and cheap last year mercato to the current situation there are a big differences. We shall see where is the truth, but not everything is black or white for me. I can not blame Lotito for everything and to use him like vent for everything bad and wrong regarding the club, it is just ridiculous to follow such style....
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Conn
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PostSubject: Re: Lotito trial against Irriducibili   Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:19 pm

usampa wrote:
Quote :
Some people claim that he is only out to make a personal investment out of Lazio


It is obvious that he wants to get destination of use of his lands, because of Lazio and to build little city and stadium. If that happened , Lotito would become richer , but on the other hand , it would mean more sunny days for SS Lazio. If you want to gain something, you should give something first.

I think many people in this forum lack crucial information. Last year the Rome city Council offered Flaminio to Lazio, but Lotito refused the offer! We could have had Flaminio, already, all for us, ffs!

With Flaminio, Lazio would have had "more sunny days", but Lotito would not have "become richer", because you can't build anything around Flaminio.

Certainly I must be wrong with this ridiculous criticizing lotito attitude Very Happy
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usampa
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PostSubject: Re: Lotito trial against Irriducibili   Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:20 pm

Actually I knew about Flaminio....
But tell me honestly , what do you think would be more profitable for the club, Flaminio stadium , or other stadium plus major infrastructure around ?
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Conn
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PostSubject: Re: Lotito trial against Irriducibili   Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:21 pm

usampa wrote:
Actually I knew about Flaminio....
But tell me honestly , what do you think would be more profitable for the club, Flaminio stadium , or other stadium plus major infrastructure around ?

Usampa, a football club needs a stadium where you can have an official store, a restaurant/bar, a little museum, nothing more. It was possible to have all of this in the Flaminio area.

Talking about the profitability of the club, I do believe that a new stadium (even without a city around) "in Rome" would be better than the Flaminio option. The problem, however, is a little bit more complicated. We have (we had, actually), the certainty of Flaminio, now on the one side, and the hypothesis of a new stadium to be build somewhere, at some point, if... possibly... when.

About the balance between the club's own good and the president own profit, let me clarify that I never said that lotito should not gain from Lazio. It is something most presidents do, and besides, since the football clubs lost their "no profit" label, it's something we must accept.
However, I have a problem if I see someone that does not just aim at gaining, but wants to speculate and exploit the club for his own advantage. The oldest football club in Rome belongs to the fans, not to some crazy charlatan.

P.S. If lotito just wanted to "gain with Lazio", he would only need to try to make the Lazio shares price go up. Strangely enough, the shares fell down by far since he arrived, so that all the Lazio shareholders are mad at lotito.
If lotito wanted to "speculate with Lazio", he would try to get the destination of use of his lands changed and build up a quarter with the company he set up with Mezzamerda, a company that is not related at all with Lazio.
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Lotito trial against Irriducibili   Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:45 pm

Liverpool and Everton could groundshare but they both intend to make highly controversial moves to their own stadiums.

I don't know what Lotito's reasons are and I could speculate all day, but maybe, just maybe Flaminio wasn't the right option.
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Laziophilic
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PostSubject: Re: Lotito trial against Irriducibili   Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:27 pm

Lotito claimed that Lazio will not survive in the future without a new separate stadium along with the facilities that will be build around the stadium that will turn alot of revenues and profits for the club taking in consideration the financial crisis and the high taxes implemented in Italy at the moment.

But I still miss some info about the following:

1- Is Lotito going to build his dream Lazio city in Valamonte that is far away from Lazio headquarters and this is the main reasons why he is facing alot of opposition from the Laziale people?
2- Did the local council in Rome provided Lotito the green light to proceed in his projet?

And please correct me if I am not worng, Rome Mayor (who is Romanisti) is delaying Lotito project because this step will make Lazio more powerful than never scratch

And finally, If there is any new potential buyer then we will welcome him with arms wide open, but at the moment there is nobody intrested at investing in Lazio other than this Lotito, sad but true!
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PostSubject: Re: Lotito trial against Irriducibili   Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:31 am

Of course we would welcome a potential buyer with open arms, the problem is that Lotito doesn't sell. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems an american buyer offered around two-three hundred million euros for buying the club, and was rejected. Lotito wanted around five hundred.
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PostSubject: Lotito trial against Irriducibili   Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:00 am

Free-Eagle, I would like to know if you had the guts to say such things in the Curva Nord where you have never probably stepped on....supporters like you, despite their age, forget one basic thing about loyalty and allegiance to the team: one does not become a supporter of S.S. Lazio 1900 because of a glorious past rich of trophies....one loves S.S. Lazio for the unique sense of identity and for that dose of irrational passion that pervades ALL fans, regardless of nationality, race, etc.etc. Lotito has nothing to do with this very sense of identity that we feel and share....he is a simple administrator with no understanding of what really drives our passion....this is something that most of us cannot forgive neither forget....keep it in mind whenever you speak about Lotito in "enthusiastic" terms....
Forza e Onore
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NMH
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PostSubject: Re: Lotito trial against Irriducibili   Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:13 pm

Biancocelesti wrote:
Of course we would welcome a potential buyer with open arms, the problem is that Lotito doesn't sell. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems an american buyer offered around two-three hundred million euros for buying the club, and was rejected. Lotito wanted around five hundred.

That bid came from an American investment fund, and while Lotito definitely has many flaws I much prefer him as our president over some foreign fund with a complex structure where nobody knows who is pulling the strings. While Lotito probably aren't in Lazio out of pure philantrophy we're definitely better off with him than a fund like that.
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Giolazio
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PostSubject: Re: Lotito trial against Irriducibili   Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:18 pm

NMH wrote:
Biancocelesti wrote:
Of course we would welcome a potential buyer with open arms, the problem is that Lotito doesn't sell. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems an american buyer offered around two-three hundred million euros for buying the club, and was rejected. Lotito wanted around five hundred.

That bid came from an American investment fund, and while Lotito definitely has many flaws I much prefer him as our president over some foreign fund with a complex structure where nobody knows who is pulling the strings. While Lotito probably aren't in Lazio out of pure philantrophy we're definitely better off with him than a fund like that.

Yes. 100%
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free@eagle
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PostSubject: Re: Lotito trial against Irriducibili   Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:55 pm

Gundebondo wrote:
Free-Eagle, I would like to know if you had the guts to say such things in the Curva Nord where you have never probably stepped on....supporters like you, despite their age, forget one basic thing about loyalty and allegiance to the team: one does not become a supporter of S.S. Lazio 1900 because of a glorious past rich of trophies....one loves S.S. Lazio for the unique sense of identity and for that dose of irrational passion that pervades ALL fans, regardless of nationality, race, etc.etc. Lotito has nothing to do with this very sense of identity that we feel and share....he is a simple administrator with no understanding of what really drives our passion....this is something that most of us cannot forgive neither forget....keep it in mind whenever you speak about Lotito in "enthusiastic" terms....
Forza e Onore
Gundebondo

forza e onore ??

sense of identity ??

I went to see Lazio for the first time when Lazio was in serie B against Perugia...
you choose Lazio when Cragnotti was a king. You, THE "sergini generation" and the other "lotito vattene generation" are the fans that know only victorise and cups and come
to tell me that you have a sense of identity ? And what is for you the sense of identity ? But you are really sure that a Laziale is like you ? And where is the difference with riommanisti ? For you the sense of identity is the same that created Irr with the extorsion to Cragnotti ? The same that created people with the bill of a bar " du' cornetti e'n cappuccino " that said "....this is the proof that I meet the hungarian buyer..."...the same that said " ...with Lotito we don't sell like before, we have to sent him away...." ??
You choose your "camerati" and "camorristi", that wanted to boycot the team during the championship, that hoped that Lazio could fail, that hoped that fans didn't buy the ticket to see the match, that hoped that Lotito could sell, that now hope that the stadium will be built in Valmontone.....BUT ARE YOU REALLY LAZIALE ?
I'll go also in Valmontone to see Lazio because I am a fan, not a puppet that use only the words. I'm a Laziale. I don't hate. I Love my S.S.Lazio 1900. You, like Di Canio ( Cisco is his house... ) have choosen to exit from the field to enter in camorra and camerati house.
I choose my S.S.Lazio, and I have just my subscription and I'll buy only original merchandise from S.S.Lazio 1900.
You go on with idiot words, slogans and boycott. Go now to buy the banner "Lotito vattene" ....there are sales....
Now I wait for another step......all that speakers that helped the Irr to divide fans and to attack Lotito....where are ?
The famoous Radio Hypocrit...The bill is coming also for you.....but the real Laziale wait....wait....
With Claudio we can also wait...

GRAZIE CLAUDIO LOTITO, PRESIDENTE DELLA S.S.LAZIO 1900
THE FIRST TEAM OF ROME, AND NOT THE FIRST TEAM OF CAMORRA.
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Lotito trial against Irriducibili   Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:05 pm

When Claudio took the reigns of the club, our problems were business related and had nothing to do with fotball, therefore I ws happy that a successful business man took over the club. We had success when Sergio was here, but that was a case of where business goes out the window and one man has his fun. In the modern world of football, clubs need to be run like businesses or they won't survive. Lotito saved this club, there could have been other saviours, but the fact is Lotito was the man who saved us and for that I am grateful.

The truth is, Lotito could also destroy us. The only man who has all the information needed to run this club is Lotito and he is the man who we have to put our faith in, but there is no doubt that there is a branch of laziales who have evidence to suggest he is not running the club as he should. There is also evidence to suggest he is runnning the club well...we can debate these cases of evidence all day long, but the simple truth is, we need a president we can trust and it seems Lotito is going nowhere, so the best thing we can all do is at least try and trust him.
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NMH
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PostSubject: Re: Lotito trial against Irriducibili   Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:30 pm

There is a lot of sense in what you say, Caxi. Football clubs need to be run like businesses and I for one think Lotito is on the right way. True, I he pulls out tomorrow without anyone taking over we are in for a rough ride. But that's the same situation with loads of other clubs.

Where would Inter be if Moratti pay ridiculous transfers and wages year after year?
Where Milan be without Berlusca?
That other team from Rome?

And what will happen to Chelsea when Abramovic decides that his football club isn't a fun toy anymore?

Chelsea fans are in for a grim experience like it happend to us when Cragnotti's fantasy world collapsed. He took us for a nice ride but it nearly cost the club's life.
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PostSubject: Re: Lotito trial against Irriducibili   Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:55 pm

I want no foreign investors or owners at Lazio

we are the first team of Roma, and should also remain as such, no need for American money. Lotito isnt perfect by any means, he has killed a lot of lazialita' and identity at the club, broken relationships with fans and ex-players but I would have him anyday over an American or a Russian or an Asian anyone

i would rather see a passionate and ROMAN lazio in Serie B than a foreign backed Lazio in the Champions League. some people might not like that but if that's the case, they should be supporting Chelsea not Lazio.

I am not pro-lotito or anti-lotito, i dont have the information on what is going on to say that, only lotito and those at the club do, I just care for what is best for SS Lazio 1900, and that is to keep as much lazialita' as possible at the club, bring the fans back into the Curva and keep Lazio financially stable

until a real laziale who is capable of that steps in, I'm settling for Lotito. supporting Lazio is never easy, and its even harder with a lack of information...

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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Lotito trial against Irriducibili   Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:57 pm

I echo the sentiments above fully.
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Conn
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PostSubject: Re: Lotito trial against Irriducibili   Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:39 pm

free@eagle wrote:


forza e onore ??

sense of identity ??

I went to see Lazio for the first time when Lazio was in serie B against Perugia...
you choose Lazio when Cragnotti was a king. You, THE "sergini generation" and the other "lotito vattene generation" are the fans that know only victorise and cups and come
to tell me that you have a sense of identity ? And what is for you the sense of identity ? But you are really sure that a Laziale is like you ? And where is the difference with riommanisti ? For you the sense of identity is the same that created Irr with the extorsion to Cragnotti ? The same that created people with the bill of a bar " du' cornetti e'n cappuccino " that said "....this is the proof that I meet the hungarian buyer..."...the same that said " ...with Lotito we don't sell like before, we have to sent him away...." ??
You choose your "camerati" and "camorristi", that wanted to boycot the team during the championship, that hoped that Lazio could fail, that hoped that fans didn't buy the ticket to see the match, that hoped that Lotito could sell, that now hope that the stadium will be built in Valmontone.....BUT ARE YOU REALLY LAZIALE ?
I'll go also in Valmontone to see Lazio because I am a fan, not a puppet that use only the words. I'm a Laziale. I don't hate. I Love my S.S.Lazio 1900. You, like Di Canio ( Cisco is his house... ) have choosen to exit from the field to enter in camorra and camerati house.
I choose my S.S.Lazio, and I have just my subscription and I'll buy only original merchandise from S.S.Lazio 1900.
You go on with idiot words, slogans and boycott. Go now to buy the banner "Lotito vattene" ....there are sales....
Now I wait for another step......all that speakers that helped the Irr to divide fans and to attack Lotito....where are ?
The famoous Radio Hypocrit...The bill is coming also for you.....but the real Laziale wait....wait....
With Claudio we can also wait...

GRAZIE CLAUDIO LOTITO, PRESIDENTE DELLA S.S.LAZIO 1900
THE FIRST TEAM OF ROME, AND NOT THE FIRST TEAM OF CAMORRA.

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PostSubject: Re: Lotito trial against Irriducibili   Today at 7:36 pm

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