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 Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma

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PostSubject: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:52 pm

I think that Pandev and Ledesma are very important players for the team, and they deserve higher salary.
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usampa
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Sat Jul 12, 2008 7:01 pm

Of course they do ! And I am confident Lotito will manage to negotiate the felicitous agreement
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Sat Jul 12, 2008 7:24 pm

I truly believe that if the team played well this season and went to champions league (i hope so), pendev and ledesma will for sure continue with Lazio
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Goerlandt
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:33 pm

AbedElkader wrote:
I truly believe that if the team played well this season and went to champions league (i hope so), pendev and ledesma will for sure continue with Lazio

I hope so! Ledesma will definetly continue with Lazio, but Pandev I'm not so sure. Let's hope
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:44 pm

yes, I'm pretty sure both their hearts are at Lazio but they need the success to go with it. my only fear is that Lotito will hold firm like he did with rocchi and then they'll line up moves to other clubs.

Pandev says he'll go next year if he doesn't get a rise, which would be good for us to cash in on him before his contract runs out, if it's his wish to go of course.

Ledesma worries me more, he's made threats before and now he's talking about Article 17.

I hope Lotito sees sense and pays them more, sooner rather than later.

I don't think either will leave, but we need a top 6 finish at the very least to convince them to stay.
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Sgt. Pepper
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:04 pm

According to the news both player will use article 17 in case they leave next season, thus getting out the door for peanuts just like Behrami... I made some translations in the "Lazio Squad" section player news topic yesterday, if you guys are interested...

Ledesma wanted the contract issue solved before leaving to the trainingcamp, so that he could concentrate fully on his football. Although a meeting was scheduled yesterday with his agent DīIppolito, it never took place since Lotito was busy. He talked to the agent by telephone which apparently wasnīt satisfying for neither Ledesma nor his agent.

Pandevīs case is different. There have been several meetings, but nothing came out of it. Deadline in September which apparently is "Do or Die".

In this moment it doesnīt look very promising for any of Ledesma nor Pandev, although much could happen within one year and this could also be seen as a "game" from their agents (especially Ledesmas) who have a lot of influence, not to mention that the agents also have strong motives in these negotiations, because itīs their way of earning money.

Also it could be an important sign that Baronio and Inzaghi are not in the trainigcamp, but left back in Rome, since those two have big contracts and Lazio are desperate to get rid of them. And in general to cut down the squad, thus also the wages. Perhaps itīs Lotitoīs intention to free wages in order to spend on the key playerīs contracts. That is my own hypothesis, not founded in any realism though and I doubt thatīs the plan as well..

However, with Lotito at the helm, itīs more or less a miracle whenever he manages to renew a contract with a key player, like we have seen many times in the past. Thatīs why this situation is worrying... Although I have to mention that our dear President is very good at renewing with useless trap on long term contracts. Bravo Presidente.

And really... itīs not like these two players ask for the moon. They want a contract like that of Tommaso Rocchi (1 million per season + bonuses) which is only a fair demand.

But obviously, when our President is so unprofessional that his only Sports Director leaves the club in the middle of the mercato and he has to deal with everything by himself - mercato, selling and bying, contract renewals etc. etc. itīs clear that he hasnīt time enough for everything...

Whatever the outcome of the situation... itīs certainly not a very positive start to the new season, in a situation when many laziali were again enthusiastic after the signings of the two Argentinians...
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rockybalboa83
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PostSubject: FIFA Article 17   Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:33 pm

FIFA 17

Excuse my ignorance, but could someone please enlighten a fellow lazio supporter on what this clause actually is? And how it is putting so much strain on Lazio in particular?

Yes we are a club that is not very liquid in its finances, but this wage ceiling that Lotito has introduced as a means of helping the club is actually killing us..

Behrami,Pandev and Ledesma have all threatened to use this to buy out the remaining year on their contract so as to move to a club that will meet their wage demands (and from what i understand is that if this is enforced the player must move abroad and cannot use this clause to move to another club in the same country)

Has Behrami actually left the club? and if so what do we receive from his departure? From someone that is at least 10m rated, I have read that we could receive 4m?? This is killing us..And also killing potential talent like Behrami's longevity at the club because we cannot agree to terms..so what can we do to prevent this? our financial situation tells me that there is not much we can do..

I have read that Ledesma is obviously trying to improve his contract etc which is only fair for the player he is, but should we be worried so much about getting more and more players into Lazio - Carrizo, Zarate, Radu have been great signings for us - but we are requested more and more players..? We desperately need to secure players like ledesma,pandev etc and avoid losing out with a bitter fallout financially...Pandev in my opinion is a great talent who has always been consistent for lazio as has rocchi...we re issued a contract to rocchi who is 4 years or so older than Pandev so why not secure Pandev who is such a protagonist and is 25? with a steady goalkeeper a new whiz kid like zarate and with silvestri having more responsibility I think we will be fine...The last thing anyone wants to see is Lazio lose players like Pandev and Ledesma who are sorely needed...

In my opinion I think we could use a player like Dainelli because Siviglia cannot go forever although I think he shows great leadership for young defenders..But we need to think of more youth...Midfield I would suggest someone like Fernandez would be a prized pick up..We need more creativity in the midfield..I think Ledesma plays such a loan hand...Why didn't we go for someone like Cigarini? Or even Almiron? Cigarini went to Atalanta...And Almiron is being chased by everyone but lazio!!! He wasn't even given a go for Juve..We need creative spark, good technique,pace and skillful passing with an eye for goal...Hopefully Zarate can play in that trequartista Pandev - Rocchi - Zarate..which I think would cause any team headaches..

Dead Wood

Inzaghi - Get rid of this guy..A shadow of his brother..Not even close to Pippo's Level and we have no need for him..
Zauri - I don't think he was a really inspirational captain and we need someone with more pace..Someone fresh
Belleri - Not sure why he is at the club
Makinwa - Not old in age, but he does not impress me..and he is not first choice in any formation..
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usampa
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:06 pm

I am little confused about something I have read today in Transfers and Rumours News by LF thread : The Swiss wide player is the prime candidate to replace Behrami, who has left Rome thanks to FIFAīs article 17.

As far as I know Behrami is still in Lazio or ? He didn't use Article 17 yet ?
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Giolazio
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:11 pm

usampa wrote:
I am little confused about something I have read today in Transfers and Rumours News by LF thread : The Swiss wide player is the prime candidate to replace Behrami, who has left Rome thanks to FIFAīs article 17.

As far as I know Behrami is still in Lazio or ? He didn't use Article 17 yet ?

According to Gazzetta Dello Sport he has already left but I havn't seen an official Lazio statement on the matter.
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usampa
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:36 pm

I thought Lotito had intentions to sue Behrami , if he leaves us under A 17 rule.
This Article is very unfair to the clubs with small finances as we are. Today is Behrami , tomorrow Ledesma. Who is next.... scratch
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Giolazio
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:43 pm

This rule is gonna kill football!
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ClockworkOrange
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:53 pm

Giolazio wrote:
This rule is gonna kill football!

Yes itīs another tool in hands of the real football murderers .. the blodsucking agents!

Like a devil in a cartoon they sit on the players shoulder whispering in their ears storys about more money, more glory .. telling the players how great they are, that they are too good for their current club, that they should be earning so much more, the grass is always greener on the other side and so on and on and on
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Giolazio
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:00 pm

ClockworkOrange wrote:
Giolazio wrote:
This rule is gonna kill football!

Yes itīs another tool in hands of the real football murderers .. the blodsucking agents!

Like a devil in a cartoon they sit on the players shoulder whispering in their ears storys about more money, more glory .. telling the players how great they are, that they are too good for their current club, that they should be earning so much more, the grass is always greener on the other side and so on and on and on

Exactly. With so many Primadonnas in modern football this is gonna give them more ammunition.

Every time there is a little dispute in the club whether it be contracts or a player being dropped for a few games they're going to use this article 17 as a threat!
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valdanito_10
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:13 pm

players should respect tgheir contracts, why sing them in the 1st place.

mercenarios!
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Laziophilic
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:55 pm

What a good start for the next season ??

Players disscusing contract renewal during the season are the most affected players in terms of performance in the field, just imagine if they are the most important Lazio players: Ledesma and Pandev.

I don't know from where to start, Ledesma and Pandev deserve salary increase as long as they are even more important and younger than Rocchi. Lotito should not be that stupid to not satisfy their needs esp. he turned down prestious offers from european top clubs for both of them. I still cann't sollow it, players are signed and Lazio do every thing to show them in the world, turn down important offers, and then let them go free for the god damn FIFA article 17.

It really hurts to see how players are threatening their clubs every now and then if their needs are not satisfied, what I know (I might be worng) is that I never saw a club in the world in which their are at least 3 players will use the article No. 17. Something like Lazio is a big prison and they are in rush to be free!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ledesma's agent qoutes are really serious, it seems that the relationship will end from here. Thanks to Lotito professional behavior in dealing with appointments and deadlines.

Those are his words:

"We will not back down. We gave Lazio a chance, but Lotito has not understood the kind of man Ledesma is. He is a professional and wanted to take a step towards the President to help out the club. We would have been happy with a private arrangement because he didn't want to start training without a contract renewal, but that is not the way it went. The way Article 17 is structured, we cannot use it to join another Italian club, so Ledesma must therefore look overseas. It's a shame, as in Italy he was of interest to Inter, Juventus and Fiorentina. Abroad we have Real Madrid and I spoke to Predrag Mijatovic, who is very impressed by the player. Villarreal and Atletico Madrid are also tracking him, so we have many options to choose from.”

It is a hopeless case, sad but true.
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Sgt. Pepper
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:30 pm

It seems to me that article 17, Ledesma/Pandev etc. etc. is now being discussed three different places in the forum... I understand, since the discussion could fit in more places and the player section is still under construction....

I will move this topic to the already existing one in "Only Lazio" as I think this issue is more a general discussion rather than a transfermarket issue in this moment...

Please Continue...
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The Big Payback
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:31 pm

Well, fuck you Ledesma! What right have you to make demands after how poor you were last season. A few good goals but the passing side of his game was shocking.
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howie
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:05 am

Dude...chill. These players want extensions. Contract is almost over so of course it is normal. Also their contract was given to them 4-5 years ago when they were still minnows. True last year they didn't shine as bright but so did everybody at Lazio. But these are the 2 players that helped Lazio gain a CL spot and maybe survived last season. I think it is reasonable for them to ask for a raise. They are professional footballers.
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ClockworkOrange
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:17 am

howie wrote:
Dude...chill. These players want extensions. Contract is almost over so of course it is normal. Also their contract was given to them 4-5 years ago when they were still minnows. True last year they didn't shine as bright but so did everybody at Lazio. But these are the 2 players that helped Lazio gain a CL spot and maybe survived last season. I think it is reasonable for them to ask for a raise. They are professional footballers.

In Ledesmaīs case he has a contract to 2011 so he is 2 years in on a 5 year contract .. his contract is protected to next summer then he can use article 17 and then leave for peanuts .. The same goes for Pandev he can use article 17 next summer .. but he "only" has a contract until 2010

And another thing .. they don't ask .. at least not Ledesma he blackmails .. I want this amount of money or I leave for next to nothing next summer. Pandev hasn't been as threatening .. "just mentioning" that he could use article 17 next summer.

As much as I hate this kind of behaviour against the club .. no loyalty no honour .. mercenaries you might say .. in the end you can only blame Lotito for this mess

he knew both Pandevs & Ledesmas wanted new contracts .. and since he (according to himself) has rejected big money offers for both players .. then they must be two of the cornerstones of Lazio for years to come .. considering that .. the first thing (before signing new players who according to rumors earns up to €1,5 million) Lotito should have done after the last season ended was to sort out their contracts

One might think that he has learned something from losing all those players for nothing during the years .. but obviously not

the great businessman Lotito .. says no to €20 million (Pandev) + €20 million (Ledesma) + €10 (Behrami) .. now they can leave for a total of something like €10 million .. but atleast he saved the cost of the salaryraise .. something like a total of €1,5 million per year

Math according to Lotito €1,5 million/season > €40 million

Maybe it won't be as bad as this .. but I'm getting feed up with Lotitos way of doing business .. show no respect to no one .. first the signing of Amoruso which he stalled and stalled until it fell apart .. either you want the player or not .. the same goes for the Pinzi-Stendardo deal .. if you make a deal you honour it and don't stall it in the last minute .. no respect what so ever .. and now this .. he knew perfectly well that Ledesma wanted the contract sorted out before the training camp .. and what's the great Presidents answer "It's not a priority" .. someone should perhaps tell Lotito that he is neither Ceasar nor the Pope

Yes I'm frustraded and annoyed .. this looked like it could have been a good summer for Lazio .. but of course it wouldn't have been Lazio if there hadn't been any trouble or so
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:23 am

Lotito is a business man, he nows what he's doing, he's not going to let any good deals slip by, he's holding out to save a bit of money, a small fee I know, but he still wants to save it and spend it elsewhere. for example, a wage rise for these two is the price of Kozak's transfer fee almost.

Pandev's situation is no different to Rocchi's really, he does not want to leave, he wants to stay, he's said that, but he has a life to live too, he feels he needs the wage rise and not many would say he doesn't. I actually think Pandev is handling this well, it's just he always seems to get the bad press that Rocchi never gets.

Ledesma makes threats, but ultimately, he has no intention of going anywhere.
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:26 am

Perfectly agree with your great post Clockwork...

Good explanation, correct information...simple and straight..Bravo !!

I would like to add one thing though....

Pandev and his agent has made a deadline for the renewal of his contract scheduled for September. Pandev apparently said himself, if no agreement is found by then, the negotiations are over and he will leave next summer.

So with that in mind, you can say that Pandev is doing the exact same thing as Ledesma, the Argentine midfielder is just one step further down the road since the deadline he set up has already been crossed...

One difference more... Apparently Pandev is asking for 1.5 million Euro according to some news, whereas Ledesma is only requesting 1 million + bonuses. Those news are trustworthy I believe, although not confirmed.

But I agree... Itīs Lotitoīs terrible management causing the problem
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:01 am

I always think it's difficult to know what the real situation with Pandev is as a lot of talking seems to be done by those who represent him.

the only thing is, I think he should be on a higher wage than Rocchi anyway, not a massive amount more, but the team should be built round him, not Rocchi and arguably Ledesma too. for me, they're the two most important squad members...and they know they are!
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:52 am

This is absolutely ridiculous.

There is no clarification from Lotito on this, Ledesma is 99.9% sure of leaving Lazio now though I hope he would somehow stay. As for Pandev, if Lotito intends on building a team around him, for god's sake, pay him the money he deserves. How long more before Lotito finally realizes that he cannot keep his best players this way? A very good example was Liverani and Dabo. And now we are looking at potentially Ledesma and possibly one of the biggest star in Serie A to come; Pandev.
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howie
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:06 am

Seriously..these problems would not arise if Lottito is not the president. I don't see the professionalism...at all...in our club management. How can players play well in the right state of mind if they have all these trap to think about?

With Lottito at helm, Lazio is fast becoming one the worst supported club (in terms of season holder tickets) and is changing its status from club that players dream to go into club that players use to get to big club. Not good. Frustrating. Neutral
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:21 am

I dont agree with every move Lotito makes, but at this point of the season he is busy preparing and finalizing the squad. With no DS, its all up to him.

the statements Ledesma has made are very offensive to Lazio and also to me, and the other fans. negotiations take time, this is the 2nd time he has said he will leave, last time he threatened us and then went on to have a very poor season.

if he plays like trap now, no club will want him and he will be forced not only to stay but on less money.

Pandev has also disappointed me but he is giving Lotito time and at least wants to remain. He wants more money, but at least his priority is to stay at Lazio. I accept that.

Lotito has done many, many things wrong, but what Ledesma says, in my opinion is a disgrace

don't forget that we are the club that gave him his reputation, if it wasnt for Lecce and Lazio, Ledesma would still be a nobody.

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