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 Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma

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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:49 am

Lotito can't afford to wait until the season begins as if it becomes clear that we are going to struggle this season, these guys won't sign. I'm fairly sure these guys want a contract by the end of the transfer window and I'd say Lotito does too.

I think Lotito would be best to leave this situation until August.
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usampa
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:11 am

I just can't take the Ledesma's case in good faith. What is this deadline from yesterday by today, I mean this is very short time......

It's just not serious someone to expect that the negotiations could be done for 1 day. Of course his agent should do his job, which includes throwing threats in the press and putting pressure on Lotito.
I am prone to think everything will be ok after all. This is the last chance for Lotito to prove that we are not working on piece rate basis and we have long term strategy.

Also if these with Zarate salary is true(1.5 mil per year), I just could say : very , very stupid. Do we have salary cap, or not ? If Zarate has such contract, there is not such thing. Hence the management should reconsider current wages, with eyes on recovering the atmosphere inside. I can only imagine how for example players like Cribari , Ledesma , Pandev felt, when they learned about Zarate……..
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Goerlandt
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:43 pm

Lotito pezzo di merda! Why he just can renew that contracts. But I still have confidence in this situation. It's just a trick by Ledesma's agent, what the fuck should Ledesma do with Real Madrid. He ain't that good you know. Pandev will also stay I guess. We must have confidence in it!
But if Lotito screws it, I think they're going to kill him.
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:46 am

http://it.eurosport.yahoo.com/14072008/44/ledesma-l-agente-resta-lazio-32.html

Ledesma isn't going anywhere according to his agent. I think this story is just a typical example of something getting blown totaly out of proportion!
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ClockworkOrange
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:56 am

Giolazio wrote:
http://it.eurosport.yahoo.com/14072008/44/ledesma-l-agente-resta-lazio-32.html

Ledesma isn't going anywhere according to his agent. I think this story is just a typical example of something getting blown totaly out of proportion!

I hope you are right!

But being as pessimistic as I am .. I interpret this in another way .. in my eyes this means Ledesma won't agree to be sold and thus stopping Lazio to cash in on him .. and next summer he will use article 17 and leave for more or less nothing .. getting his "revenge" the spoiled little twat


But as I said .. I really hope you are right and I am wrong!
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:01 am

we know Ledesma's agent is going to play games from now until he gets a nice, fat contract with some team, probably us, I wouldn't worry as yet, but none of us know what's going on with Ledesma or his agent.
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Ermetico
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:24 am

Pandev: The agent is totally on line with P. Lotito. and thewy will wait without problems.
Ledesma: The agent will be sue by Lotito if he will not change his behaviour and business style with Lazio.


Remind this statements.....

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ClockworkOrange
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:31 am

Ermetico wrote:
Pandev: The agent is totally on line with P. Lotito. and thewy will wait without problems.
Ledesma: The agent will be sue by Lotito if he will not change his behaviour and business style with Lazio.


Remind this statements.....

Interesting information .. Grazie Paolo!

Ledesma agent seems similar with Behrami's agent .. while Pandev's agent is more relaxed!

It would be interesting to get some information about these agents .. my guess is that both Ledesma's & Behrami's agents are relatively young and/or inexperienced and Pandev's agent is a little older and more experienced .. at least that's my guess
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:39 am

ClockworkOrange wrote:
Ermetico wrote:
Pandev: The agent is totally on line with P. Lotito. and thewy will wait without problems.
Ledesma: The agent will be sue by Lotito if he will not change his behaviour and business style with Lazio.


Remind this statements.....

Interesting information .. Grazie Paolo!

Ledesma agent seems similar with Behrami's agent .. while Pandev's agent is more relaxed!

It would be interesting to get some information about these agents .. my guess is that both Ledesma's & Behrami's agents are relatively young and/or inexperienced and Pandev's agent is a little older and more experienced .. at least that's my guess

I would say the problem is more with the players than the agents. My feeling all along has been Pandev doesn't want to go and wants a deal as quick as possible. I never read any reports linking Pandev with Article 17, so although these reports seem to be out there, I don't know how credible that threat was.

Ledesma on the other hand is a complete idiot, looking for more money, which is fair enough, but he's going about it in completely the wrong way. You can't blame his agent...his agent acts on his behalf.
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Ermetico
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:43 am

Remind one point: I don't like Lotito and i don't share the food with him in any table. but.....
But we MUST remove the passion sometimes and use our mind as business man: Lotito is, for sure, the biggest son of a gun that i ever known and sometimes i agree with him about certain points about players, salary, and soccer ...

Just sometimes not ever.

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ClockworkOrange
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:49 am

Ermetico wrote:
Remind one point: I don't like Lotito and i don't share the food with him in any table. but.....
But we MUST remove the passion sometimes and use our mind as business man: Lotito is, for sure, the biggest son of a gun that i ever known and sometimes i agree with him about certain points about players, salary, and soccer ...

Just sometimes not ever.

Yeah the world of football today is really f**ked up .. silly money being thrown around and agents that are ruining the sport in their hunt for more and more provision

But as you say .. Lotitos businesstyle doesn't work in today's football ... maybe he could run his previous business like this .. but in the world of football that are full of agents and players with enormous egos .. you can't act like the Godfather


Last edited by ClockworkOrange on Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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usampa
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:31 am

Ermetico wrote:
Ledesma: The agent will be sue by Lotito if he will not change his behaviour and business style with Lazio.

These is part of Lotito game, the hard bargaining just began.....
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:14 am

ClockworkOrange wrote:
Ermetico wrote:
Remind one point: I don't like Lotito and i don't share the food with him in any table. but.....
But we MUST remove the passion sometimes and use our mind as business man: Lotito is, for sure, the biggest son of a gun that i ever known and sometimes i agree with him about certain points about players, salary, and soccer ...

Just sometimes not ever.

Yeah the world of football today is really f**ked up .. silly money being thrown around and agents that are ruining the sport in their hunt for more and more provision

But as you say .. Lotitos businesstyle doesn't work in today's football ... maybe he could run his previous business like this .. but in the world of football that are full of agents and players with enormous egos .. you can't act like the Godfather

football is no longer a sport, but a business. Prior to Lotito, we had Cragnotti, who brought us both success and failure, now with Lotito it is a similar scenario. Lotito is a clever business man, whatever he is like as a person, I don't know, but he is a fan of the club, his task was to save us financially and keep us in Serie A. so far he has done both, but only he knows if his missions are complete or not.

the situation with Pandev and Ledesma is simple...we have to give them whatever money they want, IF and only if they actually intend on using Article 17, because Lotito may prefer, in an ideal world, to sell them on and rebuild the team again. I think this would still be stupid as I think Pandev and Ledesma are the future of Lazio, the players to build a side around, along with the likes of De Silvestri, Tuia and we may have hoped Behrami too.

I trust in Lotito to make the right decision: the one that's best for business and that's all I can ask for. it's too early to know what may happen, but I am pretty sure Lotito already has his plan of action.
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Caput Mundi
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:35 am

interesting,

in Lotito, I trust in his business skills to extend these contracts, keeping the players happy but at the same time only giving them what we can comfortably afford

Lotito has his problems, but when it comes to signing and dealing with players he does well, with some exceptions. he has built a strong side, with little cash.

let me remind you, last season we played in Champions League paying less on wages than Catania, and most sides in the English Championship. lotito knows what he is doing in these matters. when it comes to the tifosi, thats another story..

If Ledesma and his agent continue on like this, they will not get the kind of cash they want.

Article 17 itself is a joke. I wouldnt respect any footballer who uses it.

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ClockworkOrange
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:22 pm

Caxi wrote:
ClockworkOrange wrote:
Ermetico wrote:
Remind one point: I don't like Lotito and i don't share the food with him in any table. but.....
But we MUST remove the passion sometimes and use our mind as business man: Lotito is, for sure, the biggest son of a gun that i ever known and sometimes i agree with him about certain points about players, salary, and soccer ...

Just sometimes not ever.

Yeah the world of football today is really f**ked up .. silly money being thrown around and agents that are ruining the sport in their hunt for more and more provision

But as you say .. Lotitos businesstyle doesn't work in today's football ... maybe he could run his previous business like this .. but in the world of football that are full of agents and players with enormous egos .. you can't act like the Godfather

football is no longer a sport, but a business. Prior to Lotito, we had Cragnotti, who brought us both success and failure, now with Lotito it is a similar scenario. Lotito is a clever business man, whatever he is like as a person, I don't know, but he is a fan of the club, his task was to save us financially and keep us in Serie A. so far he has done both, but only he knows if his missions are complete or not.

the situation with Pandev and Ledesma is simple...we have to give them whatever money they want, IF and only if they actually intend on using Article 17, because Lotito may prefer, in an ideal world, to sell them on and rebuild the team again. I think this would still be stupid as I think Pandev and Ledesma are the future of Lazio, the players to build a side around, along with the likes of De Silvestri, Tuia and we may have hoped Behrami too.

Yes and No .. we should give Pandev a big fat raise .. since he deserves it .. he's been loyal for many years .. and also developed into one of the best and even maybe the best player last season .. so he definately is a player we should keep

But Ledesma should be sold .. first of all I'm sick and tired of his behaviour .. last season it was CL or I'm out of here .. this season big fat raise or I'm out of here .. I don't even want to know what he will be demaning next season .. and also he hasn't acctually been one of our best players .. inconsistent .. undisciplined (I also think he took a very unneccesary red card this season that got him banned for a couple of games, (not 100% sure about this though)) .. so I say .. sell him so he can go and dig gold somewhere else .. why no do a straightswap with Sevilla .. Ledesma for Maresca .. would be fine with me

Well Lotito is businessman .. but his problem is that he let his enourmous ego get in the way all to often
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:52 pm

Ledesma agent moves to cool Lazio rift
tribalfootball.com - July 14, 2008

The agent of Lazio midfielder Cristian Ledesma insists the Argie won't quit the club this summer.
While threatening to buy out his contract next year, Vincenzo D'Ippolito maintained last night: "Ledesma does not want to leave, he won't quit Lazio. The boy is calm and focused on giving his best in the next season with the right motives.

"His main thought is not his contract, which remains unchanged, but only playing well."
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Ermetico
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:08 pm

Ledesma does not want to leave, he won't quit Lazio. The boy is calm and focused on giving his best in the next season with the right motives....



Ahhhhhhh how come that he changes his mind? Suspect

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Goerlandt
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:22 pm

That's good news, and for the contracts, I'm quite sure that Lotito is not going to make the same mistake as with Behrami.
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Laziophilic
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:25 pm

I still don't know why u are too harsh on Ledesma, the only player we cann't afford to lose at the moment.

For the 1000 times I repeat, Ledesma is Pirlo style player and yet I believe there is plenty of space for him to improve himself esp he is young. What I think that Ledesma need quality players to play alongside him, like Pinzi or Fernandez instead of Muta and Manfradini.

Ledesma never said he will quite if we dont qualify to CL! i dont know from where you got them. i call there was a report (rumor), that if Lazio dont qualify to CL groups they might accept Ledesma offer of 20 M to Real Betis if I am not worng. to add on, Lotito praised Ledesma before many times and the latest one when he said that Carrizo is Ledesma style player!

Turning Ledesma to tratior is really disgrace on you guys, a player that scored as more as the whole midfield and defense last year and the one that Rossi call him to the starting 11 before anyone else, and above all got many good offers that is undoubtly better than Lazio's one.

Should Ledesma become Lotito slave untill you get happy, the same one who didn't renew for Oddo, GG, Liverani, and Cesar before who were all would be pleased to stay.

Give me the alternatve who should be equal or even better than Ledesma taking in consideration our limited budget, and latter on we can talk about selling him. Lazio is the one who needs Ledesma more and not vice versa!

Forza Ledesma
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:53 pm

We have to satisfy our key players if we want them to stay, we can't get angry at them when they demand more and they know they are worth it. It's their right!
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:14 pm

Laziophilic wrote:
I still don't know why u are too harsh on Ledesma, the only player we cann't afford to lose at the moment.

For the 1000 times I repeat, Ledesma is Pirlo style player and yet I believe there is plenty of space for him to improve himself esp he is young. What I think that Ledesma need quality players to play alongside him, like Pinzi or Fernandez instead of Muta and Manfradini.

Ledesma never said he will quite if we dont qualify to CL! i dont know from where you got them. i call there was a report (rumor), that if Lazio dont qualify to CL groups they might accept Ledesma offer of 20 M to Real Betis if I am not worng. to add on, Lotito praised Ledesma before many times and the latest one when he said that Carrizo is Ledesma style player!

Turning Ledesma to tratior is really disgrace on you guys, a player that scored as more as the whole midfield and defense last year and the one that Rossi call him to the starting 11 before anyone else, and above all got many good offers that is undoubtly better than Lazio's one.

Should Ledesma become Lotito slave untill you get happy, the same one who didn't renew for Oddo, GG, Liverani, and Cesar before who were all would be pleased to stay.
Give me the alternatve who should be equal or even better than Ledesma taking in consideration our limited budget, and latter on we can talk about selling him. Lazio is the one who needs Ledesma more and not vice versa!

Forza Ledesma

Oddo, GG and Cesar got offers from better clubs and demanded to leave in the same way Ledesma is doing. Except, Ledems doesn't have any better offers because if he did, he would go.

Liverani didn't deserve his wage, he was, in my opinion, past his best.
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Laziophilic
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:33 pm

Caxi, I don't rate the players based on if they deserve or not. what I know is that we lost them as free agents without recieving any 1 USD (with exception of Oddo).

Last years, we all talked about it is impossible to sign a player who will get above our Salary Cap (500.000), and here the problem lies, extending players contact by violating this cap is quite devastating as it would break up the dress room, players motivation....etc.

until Rocchi renewal (that was a must), he signed Bianchi (salary 1.2 M), and Zarate (1.5). It is rediculious if Zarrate failed with us, that means we paid alot for his salary that we could be rather spent them to extend either Pandev or Ledesma contracts without losing them by FIFA article 17, to.

As long as Rocchi get the contract after mouthwatering negoatiations, I hope he will extend both players contracts that at the end of the day Lazio is the ultimate winner.
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:04 pm

I disagree with part of your opinion although I do respect it.

As far as I am concerned, GG, Oddo, Cesar and maybe Liverani all wanted to leave, or at least they weren't fully committed to Lazio. I think Lotito demands respect, but more than respect loyalty. In my opinion, both Pandev and Ledesma want to stay and Lotito realises that, so they'll stay, they'll get their rise and they'll stay. It's all just a business game, on both sides.

As fans, we all have our own beliefs and opinions and it's difficult to realise they true story, but in my opinion, with the players you have mentioned, Lotito will do the right thing and I think he will manage it once again. So let's not get too worried about this.
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:57 am

In all honesty, Lazio don't need Ledesma. Last season, he was a total disaster, we could still find the strength to get some good results. Remember Real and Rioma? It wasn't Ledesma who inspired Lazio, it was the likes of Kolarov, Pandev, De Silvestri who did so. The only reason why Lazio plays bad when Ledesma plays bad is because Rossi places too much reliance on him.

If rumors are anything to go by, the 3-4-3 would fully exploit Kolarov and De Silvestri, and even lesser reliance would be placed on Ledesma.

I do not deny his ability as a player, on his day, he could truly be a great player to have but how often have we seen that in previous seasons? He has been below mediocre at best.

Also, if Ledesma wants to leave Lazio at the end of his contract, it is his choice. But Lazio can do without him. Of course I would love for Ledesma to stay because given the right motivation and opportunities, he could be be the face of this new Lazio midfield. If he wants to go, nobody can stop him. I have already lost all respect to Behrami, and should Ledesma want to use article 17, I will lose respect for him too.
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:21 am

in a football sense, we do need Ledesma.

tell me which other player we have who can play as a creative playmaker, that has 7 years experience playing in Italia??

the reason Ledesma was so bad last year is all the creating had to be done by him. Mudingayi and Mutarelli are solid players, I like them, but they are not good at going forward and setting up chances,

when Dabo came in January and took some of this pressure off as he can also create, Ledesma became more free and started to noticeably play better.

as for the contract, I am confident that Lotito will sort it as best as is good for Lazio. It is about Lazio, not Ledesma. Each season, the salary cap should slightly increase, to allow for deserved extensions, as long as we have the money.

I agree that players should not be paid outside the cap as its bad for the dressing room, but do you actually have proof of 1.5 million euro salaries??

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