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 Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma

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Biancocelesti
Curva Maestrelli
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:55 pm

Darran wrote:
In all honesty, Lazio don't need Ledesma. Last season, he was a total disaster, we could still find the strength to get some good results. Remember Real and Rioma? It wasn't Ledesma who inspired Lazio, it was the likes of Kolarov, Pandev, De Silvestri who did so. The only reason why Lazio plays bad when Ledesma plays bad is because Rossi places too much reliance on him.

If rumors are anything to go by, the 3-4-3 would fully exploit Kolarov and De Silvestri, and even lesser reliance would be placed on Ledesma.

I do not deny his ability as a player, on his day, he could truly be a great player to have but how often have we seen that in previous seasons? He has been below mediocre at best.

Also, if Ledesma wants to leave Lazio at the end of his contract, it is his choice. But Lazio can do without him. Of course I would love for Ledesma to stay because given the right motivation and opportunities, he could be be the face of this new Lazio midfield. If he wants to go, nobody can stop him. I have already lost all respect to Behrami, and should Ledesma want to use article 17, I will lose respect for him too.

I have nothing to add.
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:10 am

unfortunately for us, the two players we need to keep at all costs are Pandev and Ledesma.

every good team needs a heartbeat, someone in the centre of the pitch that can defend when necessary and attack when appropriate. Inter have Cambiasso, Milan have Pirlo, Merda have De Rossi and we have Ledesma. the fact of the matter with Ledesma is it will be incredibly difficult to buy someone of Ledesma's quality for less than 15 million euro. i'm not saying Ledesma is worth this, but his experience of the team, his knowledge of the side and the understanding he has built with his colleagues takes maybe 2 years to gain.

Pandev is well established in the side, a senior citizen and is more important than Rocchi solely because of his age. have you ever seen how badly Inter play when Ibra or Cambiasso is missing? it would be the same if we were to sell or lose Pandev or Ledesma. for me, losing either one of them would mean we drop back in the league unless Lotito went out and spent 50, maybe 60 million euro and that would just never happen. whatever you think about Pandev and Ledesma's loyalty is immaterial, it would simply be a step backwards for us if we lost these guys.
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Bobbi
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:36 am

Caxi wrote:

it would simply be a step backwards for us if we lost these guys.

I agree. They are both and have been important for us over the last few seasons and are still young.
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Darran
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:11 am

Caxi wrote:
unfortunately for us, the two players we need to keep at all costs are Pandev and Ledesma.

every good team needs a heartbeat, someone in the centre of the pitch that can defend when necessary and attack when appropriate. Inter have Cambiasso, Milan have Pirlo, Merda have De Rossi and we have Ledesma. the fact of the matter with Ledesma is it will be incredibly difficult to buy someone of Ledesma's quality for less than 15 million euro. i'm not saying Ledesma is worth this, but his experience of the team, his knowledge of the side and the understanding he has built with his colleagues takes maybe 2 years to gain.

Pandev is well established in the side, a senior citizen and is more important than Rocchi solely because of his age. have you ever seen how badly Inter play when Ibra or Cambiasso is missing? it would be the same if we were to sell or lose Pandev or Ledesma. for me, losing either one of them would mean we drop back in the league unless Lotito went out and spent 50, maybe 60 million euro and that would just never happen. whatever you think about Pandev and Ledesma's loyalty is immaterial, it would simply be a step backwards for us if we lost these guys.

I do agree with you on Pandev but it is Ledesma I don't. We all seen how we relied too much on Ledesma, and whenever he played badly, we played badly. How important can he really be to our cause if he only averages 2-3 good games in a season. I wouldn't feel the pinch if he left, and I doubt 15m is even needed to replace him, 8m would be more than good enough. A suggestion who could replace him, players in the mould of Almiron.
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:01 am

totally agree with the above comment, I think if Ledesma were to go, we would be in real trouble. he is just vital to this team.

I remember Alex Ferguson was asked once who he would like to have in his team that wasn't already there and he said Edgar Davids. His explanation was that Davids could do everything, defend, offend and control and influence the game and he said he would love to build a team around Davids.

Ledesma may be no Davids, but Ledesma is as good as we get to a Davids in this team and we just can't afford to lose him. It's that simple.
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Roman_Eagle
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:45 pm

now I think we all agree on the fact we need Pandev so let's concentrate on Ledesma :) Yes he had a bad season and yes because of that our attacking game sucked but am I the only one that thinks Ledesma is not moving around the field as much as a player in his position needs to? IMO if he moves a little bit more the pressure on him will drop
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Caput Mundi
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:31 pm

as I said earlier, when Ledesma was alongside Mutarelli and Mudingayi, to create was all up to him, and he played rubbish.

when Dabo arrived, it took the pressure off and he started to play well again. his game against Udinese I remember was brilliant. He set up Rocchi with a great pass and then scored a cracker himself

he'll find his top form of 2006 again, and he's a player we very much need

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Henrik
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:14 pm

c. testa wrote:
he'll find his top form of 2006 again, and he's a player we very much need

Eeeh, the autumn 2006 must have been his badest time in Lazio. Before that derby goal he was anything but good.
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Caput Mundi
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:17 pm

Henrik wrote:
c. testa wrote:
he'll find his top form of 2006 again, and he's a player we very much need

Eeeh, the autumn 2006 must have been his badest time in Lazio. Before that derby goal he was anything but good.

the season of 2006-2007 overall he was much better than last, as were many of our players, Cribari, Mauri included

sometimes it takes a special moment like that derby to really get going Very Happy

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zaak
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:02 am

Well, it looks like we are loosing Ledesma soon and I don't know who to blame for this mess, him his agent or Lotito!!! But if we do loose him we will need a replacement and a proven one with a lot of experience. I read somewhere about Lotito discussing Stankovic, and I'm totally against it, Lotito always talk about loyalty and dedication to the team that he wants from his players, well this is a player that already showed no loyalty and went to Inter because he was gonna get paid more. Pele can't replace Ledesma but he could become a starter in a couple years, Pinzi is not good enough to be a first team player in my opinion especially if we're looking for CL spot next year.

I don't see too many options for us but I would like to see Veron back, I know his old but he's still a member of the Argentina National team which means he still got it, I'm sure his salary wouldn't be a problem and the fans would love someone like him in our team. Another good option would be Ledesma from Boca but he has no experience in serie A and it would be a risky move. Other options: Barone, Guana, Almiron, I think none of them has the skills we need.
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Magnoem
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:50 am

Weninho wrote:

I would say Ledesma is the player that Lazio needs the most, and that he's the only one in the squad that isn't replaceable. He's the only midfielder with some kind of creativity and ball control. Every other player would be a total disaster in his position.

Well we seem to have that player now, and he's certainly more skillfull and creative than Ledesma, though a different type of player.

I'd rather keep him but if Ledesma isn't commited to us then I don't think we would miss him that much. Maybe he is a talented player but his shooting and passing are sometimes not effective enough, besides he's not really good defensively or too quick. If he wants to be our Pirlo then he must be more consistent with his game because it's a liability to have such a player if he's not.

Last season we sometimes looked toothless and I'm undecided that's because we had players like Mudi who is not usefull in going forward to say the least and flopping guys like Mauri, or it's because our most creative playmaker can't make a run in to the box score a goal except finding the target with one of many long ranger attempts. We might found that out if he stays. If he wants to leave then goodbye, we can put Dabo in a defensive role and Matuzalem in an attacking one.
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Caput Mundi
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:21 am

zaak, this is where you're wrong

Pinzi has already been a starter in a CL team with Udinese, Guana would start at Lazio as well. Both those guys are better than Dabo and the departed Mudi.

the thing is Ledesma is good, no doubt, but keeping unhappy players you risk disrupting the dressing room not to mention he will probably play out of form.

Sell him now, and we get money plus a player from Inter, if he leaves in a year, we'll get almost nothing.

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frederick
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:40 am

You all forget about our "Blondie" Baronio, this could be the right time for him to step up..
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Ivan
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:39 pm

frederick wrote:
You all forget about our "Blondie" Baronio, this could be the right time for him to step up..

Every year we say that but how many chances does the guy need. Besides, Delio Rossi can't stand him. Baronio said many times already - Rossi told him that he doesn't consider Baronio as one of his players. Rossi has been asking Lotito to get rid of Baronio for the last three years.
Last year Baronio had a very good chance of joining some Spanish teams but he didn't want to go because he didn't want to lower his wages.
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Trequartista
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:43 pm

If Rossi doesn't trust him to start, then I don't trust him either.
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Dr.Madani
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:40 pm

I wish that if Ledesma stays that he plays with professionalism and gives 100% not for the sake of Lazio but for the sake of himself to get a good contract if he moves away.
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:34 am

cheers

I agree with you completely Weninho, but then I normally do.

Ledesma is as Weninho says a "two-way" midfielder who is almost complete. I can only think of 3 players right now who does what he does better than him...Cambiasso, Essien, Gerrard. Basically, we can't afford to replace him or let him go so we can't win on this one unless we convince him to stay...I would rather spend a year trying and fail, than a month trying and fail.
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LaziOttimo
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:12 pm

Why we keep Ledesma if he will leave us next year???Why why why? No
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guardia alta
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:21 pm

laziottimo Wink , i just can't find any official bid for patagonia ledesma .
delio rossi wants him to stay.
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nomade
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:24 pm

LaziOttimo wrote:
Why we keep Ledesma if he will leave us next year???Why why why? No

Lotito seems to be agreeing with you...
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nando
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Thu Aug 07, 2008 11:38 pm

Caxi wrote:
cheers

I agree with you completely Weninho, but then I normally do.

Ledesma is as Weninho says a "two-way" midfielder who is almost complete. I can only think of 3 players right now who does what he does better than him...Cambiasso, Essien, Gerrard. Basically, we can't afford to replace him or let him go so we can't win on this one unless we convince him to stay...I would rather spend a year trying and fail, than a month trying and fail.

wow you're dreaming in technicolor if you think those 3 are the only better ones than ledesma, i dont find ledesma is a 2 way mid far from it, a 2 way mid is like you said gerrard, ballack, de rossi, xavi, iniesta...if we want our own 2 way mid i would suggest pinzi
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guardia alta
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:23 am

nando wrote:
Caxi wrote:
cheers

I agree with you completely Weninho, but then I normally do.

Ledesma is as Weninho says a "two-way" midfielder who is almost complete. I can only think of 3 players right now who does what he does better than him...Cambiasso, Essien, Gerrard. Basically, we can't afford to replace him or let him go so we can't win on this one unless we convince him to stay...I would rather spend a year trying and fail, than a month trying and fail.

wow you're dreaming in technicolor if you think those 3 are the only better ones than ledesma, i dont find ledesma is a 2 way mid far from it, a 2 way mid is like you said gerrard, ballack, de rossi, xavi, iniesta...if we want our own 2 way mid i would suggest pinzi

Surprised everyone seems impressed by pinzi who has been injured the last two seasons. nowadays he is udinese bench warmer while inler and d'agostino are the starting midfieldiers.
btw seems that giampiero pinzi is linked to cairo's torino.

fabio simplicio is a good player and i hope that he will play with us.
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nando
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Sat Aug 09, 2008 5:32 am

guardia alta wrote:
nando wrote:
Caxi wrote:
cheers

I agree with you completely Weninho, but then I normally do.

Ledesma is as Weninho says a "two-way" midfielder who is almost complete. I can only think of 3 players right now who does what he does better than him...Cambiasso, Essien, Gerrard. Basically, we can't afford to replace him or let him go so we can't win on this one unless we convince him to stay...I would rather spend a year trying and fail, than a month trying and fail.

wow you're dreaming in technicolor if you think those 3 are the only better ones than ledesma, i dont find ledesma is a 2 way mid far from it, a 2 way mid is like you said gerrard, ballack, de rossi, xavi, iniesta...if we want our own 2 way mid i would suggest pinzi

Surprised everyone seems impressed by pinzi who has been injured the last two seasons. nowadays he is udinese bench warmer while inler and d'agostino are the starting midfieldiers.
btw seems that giampiero pinzi is linked to cairo's torino.

fabio simplicio is a good player and i hope that he will play with us.

simplicio is a player i would have liked to have seen wearing our colors, complete player he can shoot, pass, tackle, control the flow of the game...there is no way zamparini would let him go...though i'd offer him stendardo plus some cash...i think with simplicio our mid would be one of the best...


------------Matuzalem-------------------Simplico

--------------------------ledesma


looks deadly to me
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Sat Aug 09, 2008 5:37 am

seems like Ledesma will stay for another year and as long as rumours don't come up in the press again, it's the right decision.

Pinzi is a two way midfielder in a sense, but better than Ledesma? Ledesma is our pulse, Pinzi would be a nice option but he will never be a pulse, more a spark.

Rumours that Pandev is leaving resurfaced but both him and Lotito have denied this...which actually makes me more suspicious!
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Goerlandt
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PostSubject: Re: Renewal for Pandev and Ledesma   Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:06 pm

Ledesma and Pandev will stay this year, next year we don't know. But that's not something to worry or even think about now. This mercato we did well and now we have to show this on the field.
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