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El Piojo
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PostSubject: Where are we going?   Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:42 pm

I’m a bit ambivalent when it comes to Lazio’s mercato so far. Of course, I’m impressed by all the signings; Zarate, Carizzo and Liechtensteiner are great acquisitions (cannot say anything about Kozak yet), and the final payments for Rozehnal and Radu also make me relieved. Add to that the soon to be completed signings of Matuzalem and Fernandez(?) and we have a very impressive outcome of the mercato.

I also like the fact that we finally seem to offload underperforming players like Zauri (who after all derserves a lot of respect), Mudingayi, Inzaghi, Baronio and Stendardo. Caso Behrami is – as we all know – another story…

The only thing I’m still missing is an additional central defender and someone who could take the role of a vice-Ledesma.

But despite all this I’m a bit concerned and disappointed too. I fancy Italian football - more precisely Lazio, evidently… - and therefore I would like to see more Italians in our squad. As it looks now we’re the new Inter. Sure, football is international business nowadays, but that isn’t an excuse for not keeping the majority of the squad Italian. All those players I mentioned earlier are great players, many of them will surely become favourites for a lot of Lazio fans (me included), but I cannot keep wondering if some of these purchases could have been Italian players instead.

For me Lazio is lazialità. The most important things for me aren’t Champions League, big trophies and populistic players such as Ronaldinho - for me icons, a strong bandiera and a squad that I can relate to matters way more. Pinzi may not be the greatest midfielder in the world, but beside the fact that he would put Mudy/Muta/Firmani on the bench any day of the week, he’s a laziale.

And then Mauri who, I after this season really have big doubts for coming back to his glory days, in some kind of way is preferred over one of Italy’s biggest talents - Russotto - who I assume we could have got so easily in comparison with Napoli. I cry rivers of blood because of this. Russotto was all that I ever wanted this mercato, the only thing I really cared and hoped for. And now he’s lost... to Napoli.

I hate to say it, but I'm a bit jealous of Roma. They have their bandiera, they have an Italian squad, and they have their up & coming youngsters Aquliani, De Rossi etc. All of this while we only can put our hope to De Silvestri and maybe Tuia in the future.

I was looking forward to a lazialtà tridente consisting of De Silvestri, Tuia and Russotto, but instead what I'm getting are foreign players who’ll remain mercenaries untill proving otherwise…

(I know that these might be some harsh words toward our new players but seeing the real lazialità and Italian spirit gradually disappear make me so frustrated.)
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The Big Payback
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PostSubject: Re: Where are we going?   Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:49 pm

I believe that Mauri can still recapture his form from the 2006-07 season. We seem to forget now that he forced his way into the Azzurri squad not long ago. Remember his volley in the demolition of Udinese? Sheer quality.
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Caput Mundi
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PostSubject: Re: Where are we going?   Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:51 pm

got to say I agree with 100% of what you wrote there

we have Russotto and Pinzi who both said "I want Lazio" and one has already moved to our hated rivals and the other is yet to sign, they are both very good players

as someone who's family comes from the region itself and family been supporting Lazio since we were a much smaller club than today (thru Serie B and beyond), it would mean the world to have a bandiera of great quality and a team of majority italians.

it would increase crowds, and passion. we would not worry so much about player wages, of course they'd get good money, but they'd be playing for the club

Zarate, Pandev, Carrizo, Radu - these players are of top quality and I am proud to have them at the club

but then we have Manfredini, Makinwa and we are looking at more foreigners, I think that for a similar price we could sign an Italian, possibly even a laziale to do a better job.

Our dealings in the current mercato, provided we sign some more defensive cover, have been the best of all 20 sides in Serie A.

but we must take care not to lose the Lazio identity along with it

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Caput Mundi
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PostSubject: Re: Where are we going?   Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:52 pm

The Big Payback wrote:
I believe that Mauri can still recapture his form from the 2006-07 season. We seem to forget now that he forced his way into the Azzurri squad not long ago. Remember his volley in the demolition of Udinese? Sheer quality.

I agree with that too.

Cribari, Mauri and Ledesma were brilliant in 06-07, now it seems many have lost faith

stay cool, these guys will come good again

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Matrim
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PostSubject: Re: Where are we going?   Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:57 pm

Italian players bar a handful of those who have come through a given club's Primaverra (in other words who is to say Russotto wouldn't have left us for money in a year or two if we had gotten him? Just read his speech about how much he loves Napoli already) are no less of mercenaries than foreign players, so I couldn't care less about us buying Italian players or not. As the cases of Muzzi and Firmani showed Lazialita is all great but cannot substitute talent and skills.

As for the mercato this season we are on the right path. Buying young players who can later be sold if necessary is the way forward. now Lotito needs to learn how to negotiate contracts, too, since the situation with Ledesma and Pandev's contracts is quite disgraceful.
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ClockworkOrange
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PostSubject: Re: Where are we going?   Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:08 pm

El Piojo wrote:
.....(I know that these might be some harsh words toward our new players but seeing the real lazialità and Italian spirit gradually disappear make me so frustrated.)

Couldn't agree more .. well written

Lotito promised to build an Italian Lazio with Lazialita when he took charge .. now he's talking about copying Arsenal .. unfortunately he doesn't seem to think about finding great talents and buying them rather cheap and then sell them on for big money .. instead judgind from this mercato he only copies signing foreign players (and not all that young either)

This mercato we could have gotten one or more of these Italian talents:

- Marchiso (wanted to come to Lazio and Juve wanted Mauri easy swap in my eyes)
- Dessena (€4M co-ownership)
- Cigarini (€5M co-ownership)
- Lanzafame (loan with right to redemption???)

Just some examples .. none of them were out of our financial reach

And also there are/were some lazialtias out there:

- Pinzi (still a chance)
- Domizzi (still a chance)
- Russotto (loan €500.000 .. right to redem for €3,8M)

In an (my) ideal world we would have signed at least 4 out of these names .. but Lotito seems to disagree
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El Piojo
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PostSubject: Re: Where are we going?   Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:10 pm

Matrim, I kind of see your point. But the bottom line is that's question of what kind of Lazio we want to have.

What I personally value are homegrown talents or at least domestic players. For me football isn't just a sport, it's a way of living - for being able to fully embrace my Lazio I have to be able to identify with it, and bringing in foreigner after foreigner isn't the solution. At least not for me, personally.


Last edited by El Piojo on Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Caput Mundi
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PostSubject: Re: Where are we going?   Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:12 pm

Matrim wrote:
Italian players bar a handful of those who have come through a given club's Primaverra (in other words who is to say Russotto wouldn't have left us for money in a year or two if we had gotten him? Just read his speech about how much he loves Napoli already) are no less of mercenaries than foreign players, so I couldn't care less about us buying Italian players or not. As the cases of Muzzi and Firmani showed Lazialita is all great but cannot substitute talent and skills.

As for the mercato this season we are on the right path. Buying young players who can later be sold if necessary is the way forward. now Lotito needs to learn how to negotiate contracts, too, since the situation with Ledesma and Pandev's contracts is quite disgraceful.

Russotto would only have left if it was one of the big Italian giants calling and it would have benefited his Azzurri career, and even then we'd make a bucketload of euros. He isn't going to come out and say "well Napoli is good but I'd prefer Lazio" is he?

nothing wrong with our current mercato, although I think we should look at some defenders, we are on the right path but tell me, why sign a foreigner when Russotto was available and wanted to join?? why sign Matuzalem when Pinzi is available and ready to join??

all of them are good players, but it means a lot to have laziali in the team, they will always play for the shirt and the fans.

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Matrim
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PostSubject: Re: Where are we going?   Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:31 pm

Quote :
Russotto would only have left if it was one of the big Italian giants calling and it would have benefited his Azzurri career, and even then we'd make a bucketload of euros. He isn't going to come out and say "well Napoli is good but I'd prefer Lazio" is he?

Well, of course not, but players' regular outburst the minute they get signed along the lines of how much they have always loved their team, and players' behaviour in general has convinced me that for 99,5% of them football is merely a job and they couldn't care less for the name of the club they play for as long as the city where they will live is to their taste and most imprtantly, their wage is the best they can get. Therefore going for players who actually would perform better and be more loyal because they are Laziale is for me like looking in a needle in a haystack and not relly worth the effort. Football is 99,99% business these days. I don't like that but it's no use denying the reality.

Quote :
why sign Matuzalem when Pinzi is available and ready to join??

Because Matuzalem is supposed to be the better player of the two or because we need a player with such characteristics.

Quote :
- Marchiso (wanted to come to Lazio and Juve wanted Mauri easy swap in my eyes)
- Dessena (€4M co-ownership)
- Cigarini (€5M co-ownership)
- Lanzafame (loan with right to redemption???)

Just some examples .. none of them were out of our financial reach

Marchisio - Juventus doesn't give up their young talents easily, period. I have never heard of a possible swap with Mauri, I doubt there is much truth is such a rumour. 4 or 5 million for co-ownership - we bought 100% of two quality defenders (Radu and Rozehnal) for roughly the same amount of money, what's the point of giving 10 million for Cigarini only to use him as a sub for Ledesma? Sure, he can become a great star but he can also become another Baronio. Why not be depressed we did not buy a random Argentinian, Spanish or whatever talent either? I think our modus opernadi is first to offload a few midfilders before being able to but new ones, our roster is still huge.
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Caput Mundi
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PostSubject: Re: Where are we going?   Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:44 pm

Matrim wrote:
Quote :
Russotto would only have left if it was one of the big Italian giants calling and it would have benefited his Azzurri career, and even then we'd make a bucketload of euros. He isn't going to come out and say "well Napoli is good but I'd prefer Lazio" is he?

Quote :
Well, of course not, but players' regular outburst the minute they get signed along the lines of how much they have always loved their team, and players' behaviour in general has convinced me that for 99,5% of them football is merely a job and they couldn't care less for the name of the club they play for as long as the city where they will live is to their taste and most imprtantly, their wage is the best they can get. Therefore going for players who actually would perform better and be more loyal because they are Laziale is for me like looking in a needle in a haystack and not relly worth the effort. Football is 99,99% business these days. I don't like that but it's no use denying the reality.

Well Russotto is regarded as one of the most promising Italian talents, I dont know if you watch Serie B but he has shown he is more than ready to step up.

I believe he wanted Lazio, not that he'll be devastated he is at Napoli, but if a player actually says he wants to come, before there was a solid link, then he should be seriously looked at.

if he did one day decide to leave, he'd also be worth millions more than what it would cost to sign him.

Quote :
Quote :
why sign Matuzalem when Pinzi is available and ready to join??

Because Matuzalem is supposed to be the better player of the two or because we need a player with such characteristics.

hmm, Matuzalem, the guy who played for a couple of smaller Italian clubs and got plenty of matches but never quite settled in before he moved to Ukraine and then Spain.

or Pinzi the guy who established a regular place at Udinese, played almost 200 games for the club and has both Champions League experience and a cap for the Italian national team. he is also a more rounded midfielder than Matuzalem.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not doubting Matuzalem or anyone we have signed, I am very very happy but just dreaming of ways it could be even better.

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PostSubject: Re: Where are we going?   Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:06 pm

This is a very interesting conversation and I agree with some points - infact all of them seem reasonable to me.
I too would like to see some more Italian players at Lazio but it is not a 'must have'. I too would prefer a foreigner with better skills and abilities over an Italian with no nearly as high characteristics.
I agree with having some more Laziale in the squad. It would be great but not necessary. Pinzi and Domizzi would be terrific to restore some Lazialita within in club and Russotto also would have been a great acquisition but at least the latter will not be joining as he signed for Napoli.

I agree with C.Testa at his last point that if Pinzi has good Serie A experience and has played a solid, quality club for his entire career.... and to top that off, he is a Laziale and wants to come and join, then surely he would be fancied by Lotito and Rossi over Matuzalem who too is a great player but has not had as good an Italian footballing career.
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PostSubject: Re: Where are we going?   Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:18 pm

exactly, I dont believe for a second that we should sign average players cause they are Italian, we should always sign whoever is better, whether they are from Roma, Milano or even Iceland.

but when we have 2 players, maybe just as good as the other, it would be nice to sign the Italian over the foreigner

I already said, the guys like Carrizo, Zarate and Pandev, these guys are outstanding players. they should be preferred over Italians.

look at the Sampdoria team. last season, they played many games with 11 Italians in the lineup, the nearly made the Champions League. Udinese came 4th a couple of years ago with a squad of mainly Italians (Pinzi was there).

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PostSubject: Re: Where are we going?   Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:23 pm

Well done El Piojo about this important issue you raised.

We lost Russoto, Pinzi negotiations are complicated by Udinese, and according to Domizzi agent there is no offers for his client from Lazio! Even though we showed a little intrest.

We still have De Silvestri and Foggia, who in my opnion the only italians that could break to the Azzurri. Muta is not a quality player and the same goes for all other Italians in our squad with the exception of Mauri and Del Nero who have the potential to make it either way: success or becoming flops.

I doubt Matulazem loyality, let us not forget he is among the 1st players who used the FIFA article No. 17 , and above all his salary and transfere fee couldn't be met by Italian biggest clubs rather than Lazio it self! He was a bench player in Zaragoza and with his age of 28 I dont see him worth the 16 M $ his club demanding taken in consideration Amiar was sold to Benfica for 8 M $ who is far away better than him by tjhe same Zaragoza! What I want to say that we should take Pinzi who is defenitely a cheaper option, quality player, and above all Lazialita that couldnt't behave as the merceniaries Behrami or Matulazem before with Shaktar.

Last year we spoke about players lack of respec to the jersey they wear, and If we have enough italians and at the same time 100% Laziale we will not make a debate about our next Capitan, to.


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PostSubject: Re: Where are we going?   Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:32 pm

I agree with Matrim.

and for the addition.. why would we need Russotto for? to be rotten on the bench? we already have Zarate, Pandev and Rocchi which are the similar type of striker as Russotto.

Russotto doesn't have a place in this team, that's the simple reason.. I wish him good luck wherever he may play, maybe someday he will come home..

I am fully supporting this mercato as long as we will be a better Lazio next season.
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Matrim
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PostSubject: Re: Where are we going?   Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:43 pm

c. testa wrote:
look at the Sampdoria team. last season, they played many games with 11 Italians in the lineup, the nearly made the Champions League. Udinese came 4th a couple of years ago with a squad of mainly Italians (Pinzi was there).

Your logic is weird as Inter are the champions and they play with zero italians on the pitch quite often. Of course, you can make a competitive team with only Italians in it...or you can pull an Empoli and get relegated. If two players are roughly equal in skills, sure, it's better to sign the Italian - but not because he will be any more loyal but because he will not have any adaptation issues.

Quote :
I doubt Matulazem loyality,

I doubt every player's loyalty. De Silvestri's Lazialita did not stop him from signing with us only until 2010, for instance. We need to have a healthy environment in the club, sure having players who are also Laziali will hep for that cause but it's not the only way. The better approach is to have a project in which the players will believe in and most importantly to pay them well and not do what Lotito wants to do - give out new contracts as if they are gestures from him that players don't deserve at all. If we can't afford someone's wage demands, we should simply tell his agent the truth, not postpone meetings the way lotito did with ledesma's agent recently.
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PostSubject: Re: Where are we going?   Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:53 pm

my logic is not weird, we are not Inter and do not have the cash to sign foreigners of their quality. Cambiasso and Ibra are much better than Manfredini and Matuzalem.

and my point is not necessarily a football one - Inter are known as Internazionale Milano, a club established for foreign footballers, so for them signing foreigners is keeping to their tradition.

we are SS Lazio 1900, la prima squadra della capitale, l'orgoglio del Roma. We pride ourselves on being Roman, we are an Italian club, our heritage is in the city of Roma.

you are not wrong about all players being mercenaries. but regardless signing Italians, specifically laziali, will give the fans a bandiera to support, believe it there are guys out there who actually would dream of playing for Lazio just as much as they love earning millions of dollars. we lacked players with passion last season, watching Firmani and De Silvestri celebrate their goals for Sandri was just as precious as beating Riomma in the 92nd minute

---------------------------
as for Russotto, I have seen him play for Treviso, he is a talent. Sign him now and he will produce. He either remains at Lazio for years and becomes a star, or we sell him in a few years for 10 million euros + to a big club like Milan, Inter or Juve

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PostSubject: Re: Where are we going?   Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:27 pm

I think it's about time I muscled in on this conversation Very Happy

firstly, I'm glad we didn't sign Russotto. there are many reasons for this, one is, we had set our sights on Zarate, a player who wanted to come to Lazio, a player who had achieved a lot more in his 21 years than Russotto, and a player who is already going to be a first team member. I think it would have been silly to sign Russotto in addition when we lacked height in the squad and pace and Makinwa was already here and Kozak was available for good money. also, I'm not a laziale in the sense that I have no ties with Rome or Lazio as a region. however, I would never sign for Roma or Napoli as I am a Lazio fan and Russotto did, so for me, he is not the laziale you all proclaim him to be. however, I wouldn't protest if he never came.

I would love to see many italians in the Lazio squad, it's a shame only De Silvestri and Rocchi are the italians likely to start week in week out.

another issue is, we have to buy the players who are the best value out there, because if we start buying italians for a lot of money, there is a possibility we go bust and end up out of business. like some of you have said, we are not Inter, at least not in terms of finances. if we kept trying to buy italians on the same kind of deals we got Zarate on, we probably won't get the same quality and we could end up in Serie B, which I don't mind, but financially, that becomes a problem and we could end up out of business.

for the survival of Lazio as a club, our short-term ambitions are to stay in Serie A and try and get as much money into this club as we can. we have to do this whatever way possible and right now, foreign players are cheaper than the italians. once we get back to the days of having Inter's money, we will have more Italians in the squad. so what I would say is, be patient and enjoy Lazio for what we have, players like Pandev, Zarate and Carrizo who will have us celebrating victories this season.
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PostSubject: Re: Where are we going?   Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:44 pm

Paolo Di Canio scored a very famous goal for Napoli against Milan, the Napoletani consider it one of the greatest moments in their history. He has also played for Juve and Milan.

yet he is one of the most passionate on this planet for Lazio.

----------------------

Italians are no more expensive than foreigners. Matuzalem is costing us millions yet when it comes to Serie A, Pinzi is cheaper, he is the man with the experience and has proved himself, he is a Lazio fan and a year younger!

Domizzi is more accomplished and no more expensive than any of the central defenders we have signed. i know Napoli fans (where i live there are lots), and they rate him very highly.

-------------

no one is right or wrong here. it really is personal opinion, some of us has closer ties to the actual place Lazio and so would appreciate seeing born and bred laziali in the squad, others want the best team from around the world.

as long as we get behind whoever is wearing the biancoceleste, that is the most important thing.

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PostSubject: Re: Where are we going?   Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:10 pm

I agree with everything El Piojo said...

The two most important reasons behind us not signing any Italian players are most probably...

1. Lotito has destroyed just about any healthy relation with Presidents and Sporting Directors all across Italy. This is thanks to his rudeless megalomaniac behaviour and his way of negotiating strangely structured contracts down to the last cent.

2. If you compare a foreign player and an Italian player on the same level, the foreign player is usually way cheaper to buy for Lazio.
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PostSubject: Re: Where are we going?   Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:33 pm

I really don't get the argument that italian players are not as expensive as foreigners because I think our mercato says otherwise..

we have managed to bring in Zarate and Matuzalem on loan deals along with signing Radu and Rozehnal permanently for roughly the same price it would have taken to bring Dessena and Cigarini in on co-ownership deals, deals that Parma could esily buy out in a year or two. you can all go on all night telling me how good Cigarini and Dessena are, but the facts are, we are focused on a UEFA cup squad and these guys couldn't keep their side in Serie A. They are not the quality of Zarate or Matuzalem for me, at least not at this moment in time. I think Lotito has done the right thing.

the other point is, I love and admire Di Canio for the passion he gave in the Lazio shirt, but the simple fact is for me, he didn't play in that shirt long enough for me to regard him as highly as many Lazio players. He loved the club, but he loved winning too and for me, that's an excuse to leave Lazio but there are many who stayed with us through good times and bad and they'll never get the praise Paolo did. I have the same feelings regarding Pinzi and Domizzi, they are very, very welcome here as I know they'd give their all for the club, but they would never get the same respect that I would give Tuia if he stays here for 20 years and that's the difference, in De Silvestri and Tuia, we have more than many Lazio teams before us had in terms of the passion of the laziale.
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PostSubject: Re: Where are we going?   Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:44 pm

Nice topic indeed!
I have always associate Lazio with Italian players, like Di Canio, Bepe Signori, Gianichedda, Angelo Peruzzi, Nesta and so on...
But in our greatest history there was players like Crespo, Veron , Alen Boksic, Nedved, Almeyda , Couto,Mihailovic, and so on who was symbols as well ...

Most probably, today we are lacking bright Italians stars in the squad, except Rocchi and to a certain degree De Silvestri.
What can we do, the times have changed and we was left by many big names product of Lazio.
According to our current mercato , I think is very good , compared with previous years. That why I am happy, I have base on which I can dream...
On the other hand, Lotito makes everything possible to stay away from lazialita. Remember Di Canio, or just read Lotito-Rossi Telephone Conversation thread,where Lotito explains how we should avoid players from Rome system.
http://laziofever.bigforumpro.com/only-ss-lazio-f1/lotito-rossi-telephone-conversation-t155.htm
I think we have enough Italians nowadays, but they are very poor and forgettable, or as Oddos case they are leaving us by first good offer from some ,,big club''.
And here we are, with our financial situation, it is clearly why we are purchasing foreigner players. They are cheaper and in most cases they are better from Italians. The devotion to the club is questionable, no matter whether you are Italian or not.
For example, as Caxi said why do you think Russoto is better than Zarate. Or for example Pinzi is better than Matuzalem. In my opinion Matuzalem is more sharp and creative than Pinzi, he hasn't played much for Zaragoza ok , but Pinzi had bad season as well.
I think we will have more Italians and big Italians stars, but as soon as we become factor in Italian calcio once again. Our youth system is one of the most prolific and is matter of time to create our new Idols. But we should be able to keep them in home first.....
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ClockworkOrange
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PostSubject: Re: Where are we going?   Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:47 pm

Caxi wrote:
I really don't get the argument that italian players are not as expensive as foreigners because I think our mercato says otherwise..

we have managed to bring in Zarate and Matuzalem on loan deals along with signing Radu and Rozehnal permanently for roughly the same price it would have taken to bring Dessena and Cigarini in on co-ownership deals, deals that Parma could esily buy out in a year or two. you can all go on all night telling me how good Cigarini and Dessena are, but the facts are, we are focused on a UEFA cup squad and these guys couldn't keep their side in Serie A. They are not the quality of Zarate or Matuzalem for me, at least not at this moment in time. I think Lotito has done the right thing.

the other point is, I love and admire Di Canio for the passion he gave in the Lazio shirt, but the simple fact is for me, he didn't play in that shirt long enough for me to regard him as highly as many Lazio players. He loved the club, but he loved winning too and for me, that's an excuse to leave Lazio but there are many who stayed with us through good times and bad and they'll never get the praise Paolo did. I have the same feelings regarding Pinzi and Domizzi, they are very, very welcome here as I know they'd give their all for the club, but they would never get the same respect that I would give Tuia if he stays here for 20 years and that's the difference, in De Silvestri and Tuia, we have more than many Lazio teams before us had in terms of the passion of the laziale.

Well buying Zarate & Matuzalem after their loans would cost us about €35M .. and what if Zarate has a superseason here and next summer a top club comes in for him .. he has only signed a 1-year deal so far .. so then we might miss out on him .. and payed what was it €3,5M for his loan .. and say we don't redem Matuzalem .. then he will have cost us €2M in one season .. €5,5M for loaning two players during one season

Di Canio didn't choose to leave .. he was forced to leave .. Pinzi & Domizzi never got a chance to play so obviously they moved on

Dessena/Cigarini not good enough for serie A? .. "little" harsh to blame two young players for parma's relegation .. and didn't Mtuzalems team also get relegated .. do you blame him for that?

And we could have bought the other half of them next season and probably buying Dessena/Cigarin would in the end in total cost as much as buying Matuzalem .. I don't know about you .. but I rather have two talents for the future than a player that will cost us tons of money for a couple of seasons
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ClockworkOrange
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PostSubject: Re: Where are we going?   Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:58 pm

Matrim wrote:
Quote :
- Marchiso (wanted to come to Lazio and Juve wanted Mauri easy swap in my eyes)
- Dessena (€4M co-ownership)
- Cigarini (€5M co-ownership)
- Lanzafame (loan with right to redemption???)

Just some examples .. none of them were out of our financial reach

Marchisio - Juventus doesn't give up their young talents easily, period. I have never heard of a possible swap with Mauri, I doubt there is much truth is such a rumour. 4 or 5 million for co-ownership - we bought 100% of two quality defenders (Radu and Rozehnal) for roughly the same amount of money, what's the point of giving 10 million for Cigarini only to use him as a sub for Ledesma? Sure, he can become a great star but he can also become another Baronio. Why not be depressed we did not buy a random Argentinian, Spanish or whatever talent either? I think our modus opernadi is first to offload a few midfilders before being able to but new ones, our roster is still huge.

Juve has sent away Nocerino, Palladino, Del Prete, Lanzafame this summer .. so I think they are willing to give up their youth if only they get something they want in return.

"MARCHISIO - Between Lazio and Juve there are good relations el'operazione closed in January is striking proof. And between Lazio and Juve may open new scenarios. Those who concern Stendardo and Almiron, but also those that include Marchisio, jewel owned by the bianconeri provided all'Empoli, and Mauri. "

http://www.piazzadellaliberta.it/2008/04/19/calciomercato-lazio-rispunta-almiron/

I might be a good idea to buy a backup to Ledesma after all since he is talking about leaving next summer .. and I prefer Dessena/Cigarin to a random foreign talent since they have played and proven themselves in Serie A
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Where are we going?   Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:06 pm

ClockworkOrange wrote:
Caxi wrote:
I really don't get the argument that italian players are not as expensive as foreigners because I think our mercato says otherwise..

we have managed to bring in Zarate and Matuzalem on loan deals along with signing Radu and Rozehnal permanently for roughly the same price it would have taken to bring Dessena and Cigarini in on co-ownership deals, deals that Parma could esily buy out in a year or two. you can all go on all night telling me how good Cigarini and Dessena are, but the facts are, we are focused on a UEFA cup squad and these guys couldn't keep their side in Serie A. They are not the quality of Zarate or Matuzalem for me, at least not at this moment in time. I think Lotito has done the right thing.

the other point is, I love and admire Di Canio for the passion he gave in the Lazio shirt, but the simple fact is for me, he didn't play in that shirt long enough for me to regard him as highly as many Lazio players. He loved the club, but he loved winning too and for me, that's an excuse to leave Lazio but there are many who stayed with us through good times and bad and they'll never get the praise Paolo did. I have the same feelings regarding Pinzi and Domizzi, they are very, very welcome here as I know they'd give their all for the club, but they would never get the same respect that I would give Tuia if he stays here for 20 years and that's the difference, in De Silvestri and Tuia, we have more than many Lazio teams before us had in terms of the passion of the laziale.

Well buying Zarate & Matuzalem after their loans would cost us about €35M .. and what if Zarate has a superseason here and next summer a top club comes in for him .. he has only signed a 1-year deal so far .. so then we might miss out on him .. and payed what was it €3,5M for his loan .. and say we don't redem Matuzalem .. then he will have cost us €2M in one season .. €5,5M for loaning two players during one season

Di Canio didn't choose to leave .. he was forced to leave .. Pinzi & Domizzi never got a chance to play so obviously they moved on

Dessena/Cigarini not good enough for serie A? .. "little" harsh to blame two young players for parma's relegation .. and didn't Mtuzalems team also get relegated .. do you blame him for that?

And we could have bought the other half of them next season and probably buying Dessena/Cigarin would in the end in total cost as much as buying Matuzalem .. I don't know about you .. but I rather have two talents for the future than a player that will cost us tons of money for a couple of seasons

I realise we have yet to buy Zarate and Matuzalem, but we easilt recuperate thet money if we qualify for the UEFA cup and then maybe there is enough money to buy them outright, whereas, there is a chance that if we brought in Dessena and Cigarini, that we would spend 10 million euro to own half of the players, we would fail to qualify for Europe, Parma could get promoted, raise enough cash to buy them back and then we have to go find good quality players with a lack of money and we could end up in Serie B.

it's a matter of opinion and nobody's is right or wrong as such, but I think the deals we have done are better than the deals we could have done.

I can't blame Cigarini and Dessena for Parma's relegation and I don't blame Matuzalem for Zaragoza's, but I believe Matuzalem has shown more in his career than either of the Parma protagonists and also, I think he is a player we need more.

and whatever reasons for Di Canio, Domizzi and Pinzi leaving the club are immaterial to me. facts are facts.
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Laziophilic
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PostSubject: Re: Where are we going?   Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:22 pm

I would pick up Cigarini and Dessena any time than a player who every body in this forum know that Lotito is not that crazy to spend 16 M $ for him next year!

I don't see Matulazem transfere is with line with the club policy adpoted during Lotito era? Unless Lotito will start to spend big! Which I really doubt.
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