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Caxi
Son of Maestrelli
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PostSubject: Tactics   Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:11 am

A simple tactics topic.

The formation topics are always popular therefore I thought I'd set up a tactics topic where we can all get technical, we can discuss different formations, ideas Rossi should consider, how players link up, what partnerships work and things like that.

On page 2, you will find the design created by usampa to help us with this topic. Also on that page, you will find various instructions for how to use this design from usampa, Magnoem and myself. I hope all members are able to use this design now, if not, please contact me and I will see what I can do.

I am also working on a database of players that I can implement come the start of the new season and my hope is to have debates and discussions on tactics before and after matchdays.

Thanks to all those who have contributed so far and I hope that you will find this topic useful.


Last edited by Caxi on Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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Ermetico
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:52 am

Caxi wrote:
A simple tactics topic.

The formation topics are always popular therefore I thought I'd set up a tactics topic where we can all get technical, we can discuss different formations, ideas Rossi should consider, how players link up, what partnerships work and things like that.
cxi this been an interesting topic if you fill it up with images ( Line ups) or a field with possible line ups.
You can also create a dtabase with all players used by Rossi during the matches and compare it with our members guess and thoughts. In few words a hell of a work!!! Twisted Evil

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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:31 am

thanks Erme, yes, I have many ideas for this topic and all suggestions are welcome too. over the next few days I will work at this, but here's what I propose to do:

1. I'm going to analyse Lazio's Serie A results from last season and identify any interesting tactical features based on the line ups Rossi used. hopefully I will find positives from last years performances for us to debate going into the new season.
2. I will, as Erme suggested, create a database of players and I'll keep data after each competitive game, compiling a list of interesting features for us to debate along the way and I'll post everything as I find it.
3. As Erme also mentioned, I will present images in the near future on possible line ups for us to discuss, I think this will generate much discussion as I have already spoke to some of you about in the chat section.

I'm sure there will be plenty for us to discuss, so feel free to mention anything relevant whilst I go and research tongue and like I said, all suggestions are welcome Very Happy
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pazke
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:47 am

for me only one tactic counts, play every game to try and win the game
if so ... good ... if not so ... at least we attacked and tried to score, instead of defend a draw or so
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:05 pm

pazke, I wish football was that simple, but unfortunately it's not. Rossi will be watched very carefully this season and people have already expressed very forthright views on tactical issues.

here's a potential line up if Ledesma is sold and nobody is brought in. let me know what you think and if you disagree with me, please do say Wink
(I edited this post as I decided to recreate this formation using usampa's design on page 2)



in this formation, Dabo protects the back 4, Matuzalem pushes forward and Pandev plays slightly behind Rocchi in order to link up with Matuzalem. De Silvestri and Foggia provide the width. (apologies for presentation, but our right sided players names are just too long!)

Last season, we only won 2 games away from home in Serie A, one was against Livorno (who finished 20th) and the other Genoa (our last away game of the season when both sides had nothing to play for). We picked up 15 points away from home last season, in 2006-2007, we managed 31. Something went wrong.

Interestingly, Cribari didn't start the two away games we won. I think this formation and tactic would work well away from home. What do you all think?


Last edited by Caxi on Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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Broencoceleste
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:20 pm

Not bad, but unfortunately Rossi doesn't seem to favour 4-4-2 in his tactic...

anyway I agree with your line up but I won't place De Silvestri and Lichsteiner in the same line up, De Silvestri is arguably defending better than Kolarov, so I will put Foggia on the right and put Radu as the left Back and Kolarov as the left midfielder.. Lich stays a a back up

and one more thing.. where is Zarate?? he must play!
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usampa
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:28 pm

I think our best style and outplay is counterattack. We have always been very prolific in such way of playing and now I believe we have the right players for such tactic.....
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:33 pm

Broencoceleste wrote:
Not bad, but unfortunately Rossi doesn't seem to favour 4-4-2 in his tactic...

anyway I agree with your line up but I won't place De Silvestri and Lichsteiner in the same line up, De Silvestri is arguably defending better than Kolarov, so I will put Foggia on the right and put Radu as the left Back and Kolarov as the left midfielder.. Lich stays a a back up

and one more thing.. where is Zarate?? he must play!

well, I'm thinking this is a perfect tactic against, for example, Inter away from home. How about rotating De Silvestri and Lichtsteiner's positions and having some sort of overlap?

I agree, it's difficult to leave Kolarov and Zarate out and I think we could also put Kolarov at LM, Foggia at RM and leave out Lichtsteiner, but who partners Rozehnal at CB?

usampa, I think we are best on the counter too, do you think this tactic suits or doesn't suit for counter attacks?
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usampa
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:40 pm

Caxi wrote:
usampa, I think we are best on the counter too, do you think this tactic suits or doesn't suit for counter attacks?

It could suit well, yes , very well actually if Matuzalem and Dabo are able to perform properly every game. Of course the other links should be to the equal level as well.....
And we are talking figuratively, if Ledesma is sold. I am concerned about Kolarov performance as left defender , but what a heck we should give him a chance for advance.
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:57 pm

yes, we are talking figuratively and until the new season begins, we can only really analyse and assess potential line ups, tactics and situations.

once the new season begins, I will post the tactics and formations Rossi used after each match has finished and we can use that then as a template for analysis, to discuss what worked and what failed.

I think this tactic is ideal for counter attacking while also ensuring we are not left exposed in defence.
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Ermetico
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:06 pm

Message for Usampa: Can you help with your skill our friend Caxi? Maybe you can drawn something that cold be helpful for us to be used by everyone as a format line up?

Thanks!

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usampa
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:12 pm

Ermetico wrote:
Message for Usampa: Can you help with your skill our friend Caxi? Maybe you can drawn something that cold be helpful for us to be used by everyone as a format line up?

Thanks!

Of course, If I am able to draw Very Happy
Please send me the requirements on PM, Caxi....
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valdanito_10
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:18 pm

guys. you are under estimating zarate. i know hes not proved in italy, but i have seen this kid play many times. i know he will be an indispensable member of the squad and a permanent starter to the team.
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:39 pm

I fully agree with you on Zarate, but, is a three man attack the way to go?

valdanito_10: feel free to state the attacking tactic you would use, how would you integrate Zarate in the side?
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valdanito_10
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:51 pm

well thats the hard part caxi scratch

I would really play pandev as a trequartista behind zarate and rocchi.

It really wouldnt be 3 strikers any more, but having pandev return to a more natural position for him, but no one wants a 4-3-1-2 gain, but i think it would be the way to go.
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:02 pm

I can see completely what you mean there. Pandev as the treq was something I've suggested in the chat, but as you point out, we played 4-3-1-2 last year and it was disastrous at times. my concern is, do we have the midfield to make a 3 man attack work and would Pandev be able to link up well with a three man midfield? has anybody got any ideas as to how tactics could make this work?

what about Pandev and Rocchi behind Zarate in a 4-3-2-1 formation? would that work better for the team or would it take away from Pandev and Rocchi's strentghs. any ideas?
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Ivan
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:20 pm

Caxi wrote:
I can see completely what you mean there. Pandev as the treq was something I've suggested in the chat, but as you point out, we played 4-3-1-2 last year and it was disastrous at times. my concern is, do we have the midfield to make a 3 man attack work and would Pandev be able to link up well with a three man midfield? has anybody got any ideas as to how tactics could make this work?

what about Pandev and Rocchi behind Zarate in a 4-3-2-1 formation? would that work better for the team or would it take away from Pandev and Rocchi's strentghs. any ideas?

In an interview Rossi said that Zarate is much better as a second striker (seconda punta) or playing behind two strikers or in a 4-3-3 formation where he would play as a striker but on the left because he has good dribbling and can cross and cut in from the outside. That surely means that Zarate will not be playing as the target man (in front of Rocchi, Pandev, Mauri...).

I believe our attack will either be three players in line with each other: Zarate - Rocchi - Pandev or Pandev and Zarate playing behind Rocchi. The alternative for Zarate would be Mauri or Meghni and for Pandev Foggia.

The more pressing issue is the defense. Rossi still isn't sure wether to use the three man defense or four. If he had Moti at his disposal maybe it would be easier to try it out. As long as we have Stendardo we can't get Moti and as long as De Silvestri and Kolarov are at the Olympics we can't see how would the 3-4-3 really turn out.
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usampa
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:57 pm

Here we are.....
It is very simple, just drag and put on the right place your players. I will update, when we are done with mercato.
I also excluded players like Mutarreli and Stendardo, due to well founded reasons.....




Players :



















































Last edited by usampa on Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:11 pm

ok, problems are ironed out, excellent job usampa! cheers
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usampa
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:44 pm

The original Rossi's thoughts (trial) :

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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:54 am

the trial looks fantastic usampa, but can you (or anyone who has discovered how to operate this) explain exactly how it works for those of us who are not as technically gifted as you? i've dragged and dropped in many ways and nothing is working for me Embarassed Crying or Very sad
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LofL
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:10 am

Caxi wrote:
the trial looks fantastic usampa, but can you (or anyone who has discovered how to operate this) explain exactly how it works for those of us who are not as technically gifted as you? i've dragged and dropped in many ways and nothing is working for me Embarassed Crying or Very sad

Its probably many ways, but the easiest should just be to copy it in MS Paint and insert the players on the pitch there.
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usampa
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:18 am

I assume you are using Photoshop , correct ?
First I did something wrong, the tactic plot was gif. format and the players are jpg. format. Because if everything is gif. you should change some setting on every single image , before you can work with them. Than it occurred to me, that this would be a problem for our members and I replaced the gif. pictures in jpg.
Now everything is ok, everything is jpg. and it works, just copy everything again in one Folder on your hard drive. Then you should open in Photoshop the tactic plot image, and after that just open consecutively every player image who you want to add onto the plot. Just drag him on to the plot and insert him on your preferred position.
If it is difficult to drag(it shouldn't be) , just push Ctrl + A to select the picture, then Ctrl + C to copy this picture and Ctr + V to paste onto the football field. Then it is a piece of cake to drag the picture over your desired place.

But to make such diagrams you should use Photoshop, and to have just a little idea of the program....What can I do, this is the life Very Happy

Quote :
Its probably many ways, but the easiest should just be to copy it in MS Paint and insert the players on the pitch there.

Yes it should work there to , I am hoping for that because it would be more easy for our members....
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:56 am

ok, thanks guys. I'll get to work, i'm a whizz at MS paint but not photoshop, either way, I will find a way. this is all looking very good, i'll get to work on this, if any of the other members want to use the tactics board in the meantime, please do so.
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:06 am

usampa has already provided instructions of how to use this tactics board to create formations and tactics through Photoshop, so here is how you can do it through MS Paint.

1. right click all plots made by usampa and save pictures on to your computer
2. open MS Paint and from there open the tactics plot/board
3. go to "edit" and then "paste from" and then open the player you want to insert on the board
4. the player should appear on the same image as the tactics plot and from here, drag the player into the position you want

it is very simple and takes no time at all, once again, i'd like to thank usampa for creating this, i'm sure it will be particularly useful for all of us, especially on matchdays.
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