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Magnoem
Aquilotto
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:43 am

Good job on the design cheers

Here's the formation that I've put up.



To be honest I'm not certain about this myself, this since there are alot of variations and different players to pick. Anyway let's weigh up the options so far position by position, and try some tactical analysis.

GK: Carrizo number 1 obviously, sub Muslera.

Seeing as Rossi experimented with 3 defenders that is an option, but I think the back four is still the best thing and one that's been working for us. With three defenders they need to have a very good understanding and I don't think that's the case, so we should stick to 4 BUT have an alternative of making it 3 if needed. If we have four defenders then the positions are as following....

Left back: Since Zauri left we only have Kolarov and Radu in that position. Even though he is more of a central player I prefer Radu because Kolarov is too attacking and I think his defensive abilities still need to be improved, otherwise the back four could be compromised.

Central defence: Cribari and Rozehnal. It could easily be Radu instead but since he's at left back in thix XI then this is the defence. Actually my preferred one would be Radu and one of Cribari/Rozehnal because we need to have a quicker player. Siviglia hasn't been bad for us but we should look to form a future partnership in defence.

Right back : De Silvestri the best pick I guess, but he has to improve his positioning. Otherwise is a good modern right back and could be great. Lichtsteiner? To be honest I don't know much about him, maybe anyone following Ligue 1 can tell of his favoured positions, strengths weaknesses etc. I read he can also play on the wing in midfield, so he should be an good option for us.

Midfield is where it's the most puzzling and you could have tons of different ideas. In my opinion in football you need to have at least one winger and someone in front of the defence.

Left midfield - Foggia is the most natural winger we have, but we should only use him on the left where he is convienent. Mauri is an alternative but he's a better trequartista, same with Meghni. Kolarov and Manfredini are others but the first one likes to go himself more instead of crossing and going to the byline while the another has inadequate ability to beat a man. There's even Del Nero but I think he will be used as a forward more.

Central midfield - A hard call definitely. Dabo is a better holding midfielder and a more reliable one but Ledesma is a better playmaker. Or they could even both play but then some other player has to sit out. As I was writing this I even started to think maybe Dabo is a better option, but I doubt Rossi would drop Ledesma.

Right midfield - Another position under question. Behrami left, Mudi was used there but also left, the versatile Mutarelli is frozen out. I'm not sure which place Matuzalem favours but I don't see any other player in it so he might have to stick somewhere in there probably. Anyway, when in the opponents half he could take up a more central position, with De Silvestri pushing up the wing from right back.

Seeing as the defence and midfield is complete I would like to explain some general things of how this could work and why. I think balance is important and that's why having Kolarov and Foggia for example wouldn't work, nor I think would having De Silvestri and Lichtsteiner (though I would reserver judgment untill I see the latter playing for us), simply because they are too attacking minded and when they go forward you need someone to cover up. In this formation on the left Radu would be more defensive allowing Foggia an easier time, while on the right as I said Matuzalem would go central, with De Silvestri going forward and the holding midfielder staying back.

Going forward (literally), I think we have an obvious choice simply because nor Pandev nor Rocchi would take up a bench role while Zarate was the big money signing and it would seem to be stupid to bench him. On the other hand, they are all great players (hopefully Zarate is) so it's only logical to use your best players and adapt your formation to use them (not players to your preffered formation, although it's a philosophy sometimes used).

Forward/left: Zarate - based on what has been quoted by Rossi about Zarate.
Forward/central: Rocchi - best finisher we have.
Forward/right: Pandev - he doesn't have the strength or the off the ball instincts for a centre-forward maybe his ability is more usefull in a deeper role.

Having said that, I think all of the three can play in any position (I'm assuming Zarate can). It's maybe a minus that we don't have a big target man, but it isn't a necessity, as all the other things in football probably. And their versatility good be only a good thing, adding to our unpredictability and options in attack. With them gong all over the place I bet most Serie A defences will have a real headache.

The bench forward options of Makinwa and Del Nero aren't too exciting but this is where Meghni and Mauri comes in. By taking one of them on we can switch over to 4-4-2 and it's an alternative we should (and probably will) be using in the future.
-
Summarising, there are a lot of decisions for Rossi to make. They will be probably be easier for him due to players unavailable (Olympics, injuries, suspensions). Aside from that this season we have a nice availability of players, with the exception of wing players. And versatile midfielders, since except maybe Matuzalem, most of them are limited to their own strengths. This is where I think we should have kept Mutarelli, he could have been a usefull. I'm satisfied with the attack more or less and in defence there are also quite a lot of players to pick from. I'd have kept Zauri though both for his ability at left back and versatility.

P.S. This turned out more than a tactics post but I couldn't help it Surprised Cheers to everyone who'll have the patience to read it all Very Happy
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Magnoem
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:59 am

usampa wrote:
I assume you are using Photoshop , correct ?
First I did something wrong, the tactic plot was gif. format and the players are jpg. format. Because if everything is gif. you should change some setting on every single image , before you can work with them. Than it occurred to me, that this would be a problem for our members and I replaced the gif. pictures in jpg.
Now everything is ok, everything is jpg. and it works, just copy everything again in one Folder on your hard drive. Then you should open in Photoshop the tactic plot image, and after that just open consecutively every player image who you want to add onto the plot. Just drag him on to the plot and insert him on your preferred position.
If it is difficult to drag(it shouldn't be) , just push Ctrl + A to select the picture, then Ctrl + C to copy this picture and Ctr + V to paste onto the football field. Then it is a piece of cake to drag the picture over your desired place.

But to make such diagrams you should use Photoshop, and to have just a little idea of the program....What can I do, this is the life Very Happy

It takes some time though for a start to save all those things and make them in to one picture. To bypass that I'd suggest is by using the photoshop template file and layers.

1. The first thing to do is download the file I've compiled and open it in Photoshop
2. Now click Windows->Layers (or F7) to turn on layer window (if it isn't already, on default should be on the right side). There you can see all those player images lined up. You can hide them by pressing "the eye", and vice versa.
3. Now you can use the move tool (top right, or V) and move those player images (as layers) all over the board.
4. However, you can't move a certain layer, unless you select t in the layer window. To make this easer, make sure you check the "Auto select layer" (at the top) checkbox, when using the move tool. This way you will be able to move the images instantly when you click on them.
5. After you are finished, you can save it as a picture in order to post here (save for web), and also save the template for future use (save or save as).
6. Have fun creating tactical formations Very Happy
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:11 am

nice one Magnoem sunny

thanks very much for those instructions, i'm sure they will be very helpful and I hope now that usampa's design will be easy to use for all our members.

regarding your tactics, it was very intriguing, in fact I had been thinking of one using similar players in similar positions but the way you layed out the line up made it look very clever tactically.

I also think you could substitute many players directly into that formation. a very, very good tactic indeed.
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usampa
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:49 am

Magnoem wrote:
It takes some time though for a start to save all those things and make them in to one picture. To bypass that I'd suggest is by using the photoshop template file and layers.

1. The first thing to do is download the file I've compiled and open it in Photoshop
2. Now click Windows->Layers (or F7) to turn on layer window (if it isn't already, on default should be on the right side). There you can see all those player images lined up. You can hide them by pressing "the eye", and vice versa.
3. Now you can use the move tool (top right, or V) and move those player images (as layers) all over the board.
4. However, you can't move a certain layer, unless you select t in the layer window. To make this easer, make sure you check the "Auto select layer" (at the top) checkbox, when using the move tool. This way you will be able to move the images instantly when you click on them.
5. After you are finished, you can save it as a picture in order to post here (save for web), and also save the template for future use (save or save as).
6. Have fun creating tactical formations Very Happy

Bravo Magnoem, this is indeed the quickest and the best way to make your own picture with your desired tactic. My explanation was as simple as I could make it for those who can not work well with photoshop. I hope with your explanation, they will be able to work better with the interface of Photoshop.

Caxi, have you tried this with MS Paint, does it work well there ?
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usampa
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:39 pm

Here is the ultimate file for those who will use Photoshop.
I modified the players and now there is no green background, just the name of the player and the white blue dot.
It looks better like that, I also added some additions as arrows!

Now it remains only the end of mercato and to update the roster for next season.


http://www.esnips.com/nsdoc/5fa190f7-b1d4-4b3a-9ef1-29c6629e69a1/?action=forceDL


Last edited by usampa on Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Darran
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:51 pm

I can't download it even after logging in.
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usampa
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:04 pm

Darran wrote:
I can't download it even after logging in.

I am very sorry, it was in private folder. I have corrected. Please try again!

http://www.esnips.com/nsdoc/5fa190f7-b1d4-4b3a-9ef1-29c6629e69a1/?action=forceDL
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centrocampista
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:47 pm

The problem is, as always, our summer mercato.

We have alot of players but no starting lineup :(

When we had Behrami we where close to a really nice eleven. But now heīs gone.

Assuming we will play 3 - 5 - 2 I think this will be our staring lineup:


---------- Pandev -------- Rocchi /Zarate --------

----- Dabo ------ Ledesma ----- Matuzalem -----

Kolarov --------------------------------- DeSilvestri

----------- Radu --- Cribari --- Rozenhal --------

-------------------- Carizzo ---------------------------


What I donīt like about this lineup is the fact that neither Kolarov nor De Silvestri are good enough as attacking flanks (and honestly they also lack in defense). I also am not happy with Ledesma as an attacking option. The man should try and emulate Ambrosini as he's not good enough to lead the offense. One more problem is Mauri - he sucks. What I don't understand is this rush to get rid of Mutarelli. He was perfect when we reached the CL, the he was injured and could not prove himself last season. Keep Mutarelli as a backup to Dabo!

I honestly don't see a great Lazio unless we shift a couple of players and start acting like a club with a plan. Why did we keep Meghni? Do we really need a player with a chronic muscle disorder? I hope that dude from River joins and I hope we sign a good central defender. How could Genoa snatch that greek guy No
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zaak
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:01 am

Here's the formation I talked about in the formations topic(4-2-3-1)

[img][/img]

L. D. Silvestri (RB): will push on the right flank overlapping Foggia sometimes. I think we would be so dangerous with their speed on the right side.
E. Cribari and S. Siviglia (CB): basically they will be back bone of our defense, pushing up only on Corners and Free Kicks.
S. Radu (LB): will be more defensive than L. D. Silvestri to help out on defense on counter attacks, especially when Mauri and Ledesma are pushing Up.
F. Matuzalem (DM): Very important role in covering the right side when L. D. Silvestri is pushing up on the right side, will have to slow down any counter attacks and help Ledesma distributing and holding the ball when Lazio have possession.
C. Ledesma (CM): The most important element of the team. His role would be to distribute the ball and help out on defense and slowing down counter attacks. Starts every attack and send long balls for the attackers or the wingers. Will be the Free Kick Taker, and will take long shots when attacking.
S. Mauri (LAM): The link between the holding Mid (Ledesma & Matuzalem) and the attack, will help out on defense on the left side more like a LM when Lazio doesn't have ball possession.
P. Foggia (RW): Main role will be counter attacking from the right side and crossing the ball for the trio of (Rocchi, Pandev and Mauri). His defensive role will be a little less than Mauri and he will play as a RM when Lazio doesn't have ball possession. Plays a lot wider than Mauri and combines with D. Silvestri on the right side.
G. Pandev (CF): The link between the forward players (Rocchi, Mauri and Foggia). Will be the support for Rocchi and will take long shots. Defensive role is very minimal. His position is a little more towards the left of the center.
T. Rocchi (ST): The only Striker on the team will be the target for all the attacks, combines with Pandev and Mauri inside the opposition's area. his position is a little more towards the right of the center.
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:48 am

usampa: does this file you have created work only for photoshop users? the original design works perfectly with MS Paint and is fairly quick to use.

zaak: essentially, the formation you have outlined is a 4-4-2? it seems a good tactic, Cribari and Siviglia, despite some people's opinions of them, they do work relatively well as a partnership, but would you really leave Rozehnal out of the side. the inclusion of Mauri in the side is also interesting as he you have him in an attacking left position which is interesting.
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usampa
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:04 am

Caxi wrote:
usampa: does this file you have created work only for photoshop users? the original design works perfectly with MS Paint and is fairly quick to use.
Yes, it is only for Photoshop.For MS Paint or other image redactors are destined the jpg. images which I provided in my first post.
Does the link work properly yet ? Can you download the new file ?

zaak , very intriguing tactic , I liked it a lot.....
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:33 am

yes, the link has worked, i've dowloaded the file but I do not have Photoshop on this computer, i'm having trouble with my internet connection today, so i've been switching computers and i haven't had the opportunity to view the file yet.
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Ivan
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:06 am

Nice formation Zaak. I like it. But we'll probably have to rule out Ledesma but having two more defensive minded midfielders in front of the defense in a 4-2-3-1 (the system that those shitty riommers use) is a must. So Matuzalem and Dabo (Pele).

Up front I'm really undecided between Mauri and Zarate. Mauri has done well in pre season and if he can be the player he was two seasons ago, he can be really useful and Mauri has that physical presence - he always collects those high balls directed at him and he links the play well.

On the other hand Zarate is a really talented player, a star not just for the future and has sth Mauri doesn't - speed and dribbling.

So if we go for a 4-2-3-1 maybe it would look sth like this:

------------Rocchi----------

Pandev - Zarate - Foggia

or

----------Rocchi

Mauri - Zarate - Foggia
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zaak
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:08 am

Ivan wrote:


------------Rocchi----------

Pandev - Zarate - Foggia

or

----------Rocchi

Mauri - Zarate - Foggia

I totally agree about Zarate, but I think he's gonna need time to gel with the rest of the team and the duo of Rocchi and Pandev are probably our best option for now upfront.

I believe in Mauri and if he can't fill up that position then Pandev would definitely be able to and then Zarate could play the CF position which would be the first formation you have. As you see in my formation I have Mauri a little behind Foggia to be able to help with defense especially with his physical ability and he could hold the ball in midfield as well. Dabo could definitely replace Ledesma defensively but I'm not sure about his play making abilities!! If Ledesma leaves we definitely need another CM at least the same level. Veron would be my pick although I don't see it happening.
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Bobbi
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:36 am

With the mercato not being over yet it is difficult to predict what lineup and formation Mr Rossi will opt for this season.
There are also too many good players in the squad who have the potential of being left out of the starting XI which sucks obviously but at the same time I think most would rather have this dilemma than not have enough depth in the squad.
Ledesma, Stendardo and Mutarelli are the players now who might leave Lazio, whom I think are good enough to contribute well to Lazio this season but at least Ledesma seems very likely to leave so I will not include him or the other 2 in my formation.

After De Silvestri, Rocchi and Kolarov all get back from the Olympic games and this is the squad that Lazio will have, then I would like to see this lineup.... a 4-3-3 formation!

Carrizo
De Silvestri - Cribari - Radu - Kolarov
Dabo - Matuzalem - Foggia
Zarate - Rocchi - Pandev


Players like Siviglia, Rozehnal and Mauri just miss out for me but are all very useful and hopefully they get back to their best soon as they definitely have the potential to be in the first XI. They have proven it on prior occasions at either Lazio or international level.
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:18 am

centrocampista, Bobbi: I plotted out the formations you laid out in diagrams using the new design, I hope you guys don't mind!

centrocampista's prediction of Rossi's tactic:



Bobbi's tactic:



both formations are not too bad in my opinion, but I think there are potential issues with each of them. what does everyone else think?
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Bobbi
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:56 am

Thanks for that Caxi.

I agree with you. It is not the best formation as I would prefer something more different than a straight up 4-3-3 but I do not want to see only 3 defenders at the back so I went with 4 instead as it is a safer and more complete unit than having 3 there. I would love to have a more attacking side but currently I do not feel that Lazio can do too well with 3 defenders so thats why I opted for more there. I also want all De Silvestri, Radu and Kolarov in the first XI and I felt this was best achieved with a 4 man defense adding in Cribari for experience and guidance.

I also could not leave out any of the strikers as Rocchi, Pandev and Zarate are all important figures I feel and it would not be just keeping one of them out of the starting XI. I think it would be better to play one of them behind the other 2 (perhaps Goran?) or 2 of them behind possibly Tommaso to give more variety and link up the lone striker?

I like a midfield of 3 and with Ledesma quite possibly leaving, I think Matuzalem could fill his role quite well so went for him in the middle with Dabo a more defensive player on the right side and Foggia, a more attack minded player, to his left. Also Ousmane can help out the defense if need be while Pasquale runs at the oppositions defense. Matuzalem being the centre of the midfield and the Lazio formation (in terms of the main source of linking up to the strikers.

Open to discussion....
Very Happy
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Bobbi
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:59 am

Infact playing Rocchi at the front would be good and Pandev and Zarate slotting up right behind him could do wonders.... so have a 4-3-2-1 formation (like the Christmas tree Very Happy which I think Milan used a while ago!?).

Zarate - Pandev
Rocchi
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AbedElkader
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:12 am

Next season we will mainly play in 2 formations : 3-4-3 and 4-3-3

3-4-3


----------------------------------Rocchi


zarate----------------------------------------------------pandev



kolarov-------------------ledesma------------matuzalem-------------silvistri




radu --------------rozenhal---------------------cribari


---------------------------------carrizo




and 4-3-3:


--------------------------------Rochi

-------zarate-----------------------------------------pandev




--------------------Matuzalem------------Ledesma

-----------------------------------Dabo



kolarov-------------Rozenhal----------Cribari---------------Desilvistri


-----------------------carrizo




Main subs:

Center forwards:


Makinwa
S.inzaghi


Forwards/wingers:
Mauri
Foggia

i dont understand how can some memebers here place them as middfeilder, they cant defend !!!!



CM:
Baronio (is the best sub)

Fabio Firmani
Mutarelli
Meghni(he has the ability to play as CM , i duuno how Rossi plans to use him, his main position is AM, so i think Rossi will play em in 4-3-1-2 system only)



So surely this area in the middfeild is very lacking of good subs


RB

Lechnisteiner

LB


Manferdini
Belleri

CB

Daikite
Tuia
Stendardo ???


GK:


Muslera
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usampa
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:36 am



Ok , these is my tactic when we are going to play on counter attack.
As you can see, defense line composite with Radu as LB, Rozehnal and Cribari and De Silvestri on the right. Only De Silvestri will have the mission to make his powerful and fast runs on the right side, while Dabo will have the assignment to help him and and cover his zone when he is forward.
I want Kolarov as left midfielder. He will help Radu and I also expect from him danger runs, after Matuzalem passes.
Matuzalem should be the great play maker who can provide good balls.
Mauro Zarate is going to interact with Kolarov a lot , he can easily posses the ball and make double with him.
Pandev will be the link between midfield and attack, his task will be to move a lot along the opponents side.
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:58 pm

Interesting tactic usampa. Honestly, my worries are Dabo and Kolarov in this formation, there's always a chance that we are left exposed in midfield if Kolarov and Dabo play too wide. The other issue is, how good is Dabo playing in a right position? Also, do Kolarov and Dabo complement each other well?
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centrocampista
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:15 pm

Caxi you are the man :)

Funny because I didn't read the caption to you're post and when I saw my own lineup I thought ... hmm that looks really solid Very Happy

I really hope for a surprise or two before the mercato closes.
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Broencoceleste
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:19 pm

What a great tactic usampa!! I believe that tactic is the tactic that Rossi trying to develop Wink

from 4-3-2-1 defensif and suddenly change into the offensive 3-4-2-1 or super offensive 3-4-3 depends on the situation.. of course the tactics is not easy at all, it should be practiced more and more until the team is getting used to, we might be struggled at the first semester with that tactic, but once the team get it, it will be a super tactic...

bravo! cheers
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usampa
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:22 pm

Broencoceleste wrote:
What a great tactic usampa!! I believe that tactic is the tactic that Rossi trying to develop Wink

from 4-3-2-1 defensif and suddenly change into the offensive 3-4-2-1 or super offensive 3-4-3 depends on the situation.. of course the tactics is not easy at all, it should be practiced more and more until the team is getting used to, we might be struggled at the first semester with that tactic, but once the team get it, it will be a super tactic...

bravo! cheers

Broencoceleste , exactly, everything is practice.....
Caxi I think Dabo would fit without problems in right, because he is versatile and has two equal legs. Of course there is always chance for mistakes, but I think with solid discipline and mutual aid, it could work well. Also this is Rossi's job to change the formation whenever it need. They should play as a team, and every time when someone exposes his zone, someone should cover, for example, Dabo should cover De Silvestri, De Silvestri covers Dabo, Radu should help and cover Kolarov, Zarate should double the help for him, and so on…
This the essential things , that we are lacking recently, the team efforts. My perception for Lazio have always been one good solid team. Rossi is the key player here....
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Caxi
Son of Maestrelli
Son of Maestrelli


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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:57 pm

AbedElkader: I took the two tactics you talked about and I plotted them on tactics board, I left out the subs you mentioned as there were many of them and I feel they were the obvious choices, hope you don't mind.

here they are:





I think AbedElkader is pretty accurate, I think this is more likely to be Rossi's idea, the first formation is the way the 3-4-2-1 will be played, however, I think Dabo and Matuzalem will be rotated depending on the opposition.

For the second formation, I like this, Kolarov and De Silvestri provide a nice balance, but personally, I think Radu will end up as LB if we play 4-3-2-1.
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PostSubject: Re: Tactics   Today at 9:16 pm

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Tactics
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