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 FIFA Confederations Cup - South Africa 2009

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Giolazio
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PostSubject: Re: FIFA Confederations Cup - South Africa 2009   Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:21 am

I tell you, they better have that smelling as sorted by the World Cup!

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Taib
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PostSubject: Re: FIFA Confederations Cup - South Africa 2009   Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:34 pm

Caxi wrote:
Brazil may be playing poor football in your opinion but in my opinion, it's just an above average side who need to improve dramatically to win the World Cup. It's more than just a bad run of form in my opinion.

In the World Cup, every team has players with a winning mentality. Take Togo as an example (since you are an Arsenal fan) and tell me Adebayor doesn't have a winning mentality?

Sides like Brazil, Italy, Spain, France, Germany, Argentina are always going to be that bit more tough than every one else because their players are winners. But doesn't winning just prove that your players have the talent to win anyway?

For me, Brazil struggled to beat Egypt because the opposition had some very talented players and Brazil players are not as talented as previous squads. It really is that simple in my eyes.

Oh, for crying out loud. Brazil is an above average team but are top of their qualifying group? Why is that? They have a winning mentality. The ability to pull results out of the bag even when they are not playing well. Like I said compare with Argentina who do not have this mentality who are struggling for form and confidence. Maybe they will not win they World Cup but they will be up there as one of the favourites. No one rated them in 1994 and 2002 and yet they still they still managed to win the World Cup.

Club form does not mean anything for National team. Take for example Messi has been awful with Argentina recently even though he had his best season to date. Spain has a winning mentality? How many times has Spain flattered to decieve? They have NEVER won the World Cup. They have never even been a finalist.

Brazil may have struggled to beat Egypt but they still BEAT Egypt. They have the ability to beat anyone no matter how they play simply because when the going gets tough, the players take take it upon themselves to get that goal and win. Others crumble. Like Spain and Argentina.
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Taib
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PostSubject: Re: FIFA Confederations Cup - South Africa 2009   Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:34 pm

Giolazio wrote:
F*ckin' Horns! They are sooooo annoying!

What channel was it on?
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: FIFA Confederations Cup - South Africa 2009   Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:55 pm

Taib wrote:
Caxi wrote:
Brazil may be playing poor football in your opinion but in my opinion, it's just an above average side who need to improve dramatically to win the World Cup. It's more than just a bad run of form in my opinion.

In the World Cup, every team has players with a winning mentality. Take Togo as an example (since you are an Arsenal fan) and tell me Adebayor doesn't have a winning mentality?

Sides like Brazil, Italy, Spain, France, Germany, Argentina are always going to be that bit more tough than every one else because their players are winners. But doesn't winning just prove that your players have the talent to win anyway?

For me, Brazil struggled to beat Egypt because the opposition had some very talented players and Brazil players are not as talented as previous squads. It really is that simple in my eyes.

Oh, for crying out loud. Brazil is an above average team but are top of their qualifying group? Why is that? They have a winning mentality. The ability to pull results out of the bag even when they are not playing well. Like I said compare with Argentina who do not have this mentality who are struggling for form and confidence. Maybe they will not win they World Cup but they will be up there as one of the favourites. No one rated them in 1994 and 2002 and yet they still they still managed to win the World Cup.

Club form does not mean anything for National team. Take for example Messi has been awful with Argentina recently even though he had his best season to date. Spain has a winning mentality? How many times has Spain flattered to decieve? They have NEVER won the World Cup. They have never even been a finalist.

Brazil may have struggled to beat Egypt but they still BEAT Egypt. They have the ability to beat anyone no matter how they play simply because when the going gets tough, the players take take it upon themselves to get that goal and win. Others crumble. Like Spain and Argentina.

Just because Brazil have won more World Cups than anyone else does not equate to this side having a winning mentality. It just means they generally produce great football players.

Italy, Spain and Brazil hold international trophies right now, so yes, inevitably they have winning mentalities.

Of course Argentina don't have a winning mentality, not like Messi or Tevez have ever won a big trophy and not like their first choice eleven play with big teams or anything. scratch On top of that, I think it's fairly obvious Maradona is experimenting with his selection anyway given that he will not have many friendlies before next summer. Dunga has already perfected his selection.

Spain don't have a winning mentality? Seriously? They won the Euros and are full of Champions League winners and national league winners. They have as much of a winning mentality as anyone in my opinion. Just because Spain haven't played a World Cup final doesn't mean they never will. France 1998 and Greece in 2004 should remind people of what can happen.

Yes, group stages in World Cup finals are unpredictable but once those 16 teams progress, you have many of best teams in the world who are full of everything you need to win a World Cup. It's just a question of who steps up, not a winning mentality. "Winning mentality" is more applicable to something like Tennis where Nadal or Federer are 2 sets down in a grand slam and they find it within them to win the match. Teams generally don't crumble in football; rarely do the best team lose and when the worst team is winning, rarely do they let it slip.

Going 3-1 up against a side who you are supposedly far superior than and then conceding 2 goals in a minute is not exemplary of a winning mentality. Winning mentality is not letting yourself get into that position, if anything. But even the greats, can succumb.
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: FIFA Confederations Cup - South Africa 2009   Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:41 pm

@ Taib: I made the Gio mistake of editing your post instead of quoting bounce However, I have quoted 90% of what you said so we're ok.

Taib wrote:
Where did I write that because Brazil have won more World Cups then any other country that means they have a winning mentality? I said that Brazil were not rated in 1994 and 2002 and they still won the World Cup. I want you to actually read my posts and then digest them properly then articulate your replies based on what I wrote not what you THINK I wrote because I weary of this. Having to explain repeatedly the same thing.

It is not what you are saying, it is what you are inferring that is problematic. How do you judge who is rated and not rated?

I predicted that Brazil would win in 2002 and Italy in 2006 and I had Greece down as potential winners of Euro 2004 because the top European teams had been going through a bad patch. I didn't have France down as winners in WC 1998 or Euro 2000 and I didn't have Spain down as winners last year. With these wrong predictions, I learned you can't write off anybody just because they are perennial underacievers. It means nothing if they hook it up over the course of the tournament.

Taib wrote:
You do not even know what winning mentality is.

I could very easily say that about you but I won't. "Winning mentality" is a construct, a tag given to something nobody understands, a throwaway notion; just a term to put on something that most of us never thought about or analysed. The fact you said that means I am going to gain nothing more from this discussion.

Taib wrote:
Also I do not even think you have watched Argentina play recently.

I have, perhaps not as much as you, but I have watched parts of their games when I have not been busy and kept tabs on their squads and line-ups. From what I have seen, there's experimentation going on there. That's just an opinion, not fact.

Taib wrote:
If for example Brazil went behind they would have probably raised their game and got something out of it. Hence why they have only lost once in the qualifying stages.

You are basing your definition of a winning mentality on one's ability to come from behind and get a result. Brazil failed to grind out wins against Colombia (twice), Argentina and Bolivia, let go of a lead against Peru, conceded a last minute goal to Ecuador, had no answer to Paraguay in their first tie...but because they managed to win both games they went behind in (Uruguay and Paraguay) they have a winning mentality?

It doesn't matter how Brazil and Argentina do in qualifying, they can play around with the squad as much as they like but they will still qualify barring a catastrophe. The fact is, when the World Cup comes along they will pick their best 23 players and play as they are expected to.

Winning mentality does exist. I can't define what it is and I don't believe it can be defined. I've said all I can say.

As for Spain they have great players. They always had. They were the best team in the group stages at World Cup 2006 but one they went behind to France they crumbled. Spain have always been weak psychologically which is why they have always underachieved to such a degree that it is cliche to symbloise underchievement with Spain. We will see what Spain does when they go behind.
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Giolazio
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PostSubject: Re: FIFA Confederations Cup - South Africa 2009   Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:16 pm

Caxi wrote:
@ Taib: I made the Gio mistake of editing your post instead of quoting bounce

Cheeky git! I always rectified the error without notice..... Very Happy

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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: FIFA Confederations Cup - South Africa 2009   Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:44 pm

I've been hitting edit all day that it's just stuck... Embarassed

Couldn't rectify it this time...went one step too far! No
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Bridge-Bhoy
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PostSubject: Re: FIFA Confederations Cup - South Africa 2009   Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:48 pm

Spain - Iraw now shortly.

My prediction: Spain 4-0 Iraq
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: FIFA Confederations Cup - South Africa 2009   Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:06 pm

Prediction: Spain 3-1 Iraq.

Iraq are a million miles better than New Zealand, probably the second best team in this group and they've come out to defend and sneak results
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PostSubject: Re: FIFA Confederations Cup - South Africa 2009   Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:23 pm

Iraq are parking the bus. Playing with 11 men behind the ball. But when they are broken down, i believe it could be a rout.
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Cash
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PostSubject: Re: FIFA Confederations Cup - South Africa 2009   Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:34 pm

Bridge-Bhoy wrote:
Iraq are parking the bus. Playing with 11 men behind the ball. But when they are broken down, i believe it could be a rout.

They know that they will beat NZ, and if they could just defend extrremely well today they might get away with a result that could see them move to the next round. This is the only way an inferior team can be succesful against teams of Spain's caliber. Just remember Greece...

But sooner or later Spain should score...
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PostSubject: Re: FIFA Confederations Cup - South Africa 2009   Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:44 pm

In the 40th Minute the Iraq goalkepper pretended that he got kicked in the face by Ramos, and was down for two minutes. I think that's disgusting.
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: FIFA Confederations Cup - South Africa 2009   Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:45 pm

They've come out here knowing that if they can hold South Africa, win against New Zealand and keep the score down against Spain then providing no slip ups for the Spanish, they'd go through. Sensible.
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PostSubject: Re: FIFA Confederations Cup - South Africa 2009   Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:55 pm

Bridge-Bhoy wrote:
In the 40th Minute the Iraq goalkepper pretended that he got kicked in the face by Ramos, and was down for two minutes. I think that's disgusting.

Very usual behaviour by Arabic teams. I am from Iran myself and we play different Arab teams often, and simulating injuries is more common there than anywhere else..

Disgusting...

Good result by Iraq so far. 0-0 HT against the best team in the world...
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PostSubject: Re: FIFA Confederations Cup - South Africa 2009   Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:00 pm

Cash wrote:
Bridge-Bhoy wrote:
In the 40th Minute the Iraq goalkepper pretended that he got kicked in the face by Ramos, and was down for two minutes. I think that's disgusting.

Very usual behaviour by Arabic teams. I am from Iran myself and we play different Arab teams often, and simulating injuries is more common there than anywhere else..

Disgusting...

Good result by Iraq so far. 0-0 HT against the best team in the world...

Im not just singalling out Iraq, it happens a lot, i really cant stand it though.
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PostSubject: Re: FIFA Confederations Cup - South Africa 2009   Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:13 pm

1-0 Spain - David Villa 54 Mins.

About Time.

Maybe we will have a good game on our hands now.
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PostSubject: Re: FIFA Confederations Cup - South Africa 2009   Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:37 pm

Iraq did well, Spain seemed off their game. A little off their normal rhythm. Their defence, though, that has to be one of the easiest matches they'll ever play.

I'm not sure if I should be glad or not that I won't be seeing US vs Brazil tomorrow. Best of luck to them, can't see Brazil let another shootout like with Egypt happen again.
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PostSubject: Re: FIFA Confederations Cup - South Africa 2009   Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:49 pm

NZ lost again..... not that much of a surprise though tongue
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PostSubject: Re: FIFA Confederations Cup - South Africa 2009   Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:09 pm

Bobbi wrote:
NZ lost again..... not that much of a surprise though tongue
NZ are very impressive

if you see that NZ will play the winner of Bahrain v S Arabia for 1 WC-ticket, that must be a major let down for UEFA, as countries like Portugal-Sweden-Czech Rep-Turkey-Croatia won't qualify for next year's WC
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PostSubject: Re: FIFA Confederations Cup - South Africa 2009   Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:10 pm

Bobbi wrote:
NZ lost again..... not that much of a surprise though tongue

<Thinking about the WC-qualifications. Seems as if any team from Asia that gets to the final round and is to play NZ should feel pretty confident of making it to RSA next year tongue

A shame Iran got eliminated yesterday though...but that the result of having politics and football decided by the same people. add to that that the very same people also decide religious matter, and you have the perfect recipe for disater...
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PostSubject: Re: FIFA Confederations Cup - South Africa 2009   Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:11 pm

pazke wrote:
Bobbi wrote:
NZ lost again..... not that much of a surprise though tongue
NZ are very impressive

if you see that NZ will play the winner of Bahrain v S Arabia for 1 WC-ticket, that must be a major let down for UEFA, as countries like Portugal-Sweden-Czech Rep-Turkey-Croatia won't qualify for next year's WC

They should let a European team play NZ, and give Asia the MAXIMUM of four spots.
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PostSubject: Re: FIFA Confederations Cup - South Africa 2009   Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:24 pm

If New Zealand unearth a few stars, their team will improve dramatically. They have the same problem Australia used to; they need more competitive fixtures to fire up their team. This Confederations Cup may leave them feeling dejected for a while but ultimately, it will serve to be a great learning curve for them.

I saw enough of South Africa last night to suggest they will be no whipping boys come the world cup. Pienaar is a terrific little player; a great orchestrator and their passing may just be crisp enough to trouble a few teams next year. With the climate hurting side too, I wouldn't be surprised if they go on to do a South Korea...
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PostSubject: Re: FIFA Confederations Cup - South Africa 2009   Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:46 pm

FIFA, UEFA, someone, please ban those bloody vuvuzela's, it's so annoying to heard that sound for the whole match. Sing, yes, dance, yes, yell, yes, swear, yes but don't blow in those horns please, it ruins everything, the stands are no place for those.
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PostSubject: Re: FIFA Confederations Cup - South Africa 2009   Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:54 pm

The quality of football in NZ is pretty low. There is only 1 team (Wellington Phoenix) playing in Australia's A-League and a majority of them form the national side - plus a few players from other A-League sides. Apart from Ryan Nelsen and Shane Smeltz, I would say Glen Moss, James Brockie and Chris Killen have the potential to develop.

NZ needs to join the Asian qualifiers like Australia did, in order to actually improve and not face the likes of Fiji, New Caledonia and Vanuatu (who we actually lost to 2-0 in a WC qualifier recently) on a regular basis. This gets the team no where. And I also think its unfair how a European team will miss out on the WC next year due to NZ playing an Asian team for one last spot.

As much as I would love NZ football to improve, I know it won't really change unless drastic measures are taken - and considering how much this country pays attention and puts effort into further developing rugby I know the change is far away.

But I'm Bulgarian so I follow my national team much, much, much, much, much more than I do NZ's. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: FIFA Confederations Cup - South Africa 2009   Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:27 pm

Anyway Spain's victory yesterday, equals the record of 14 winning games in a row, the same as Australia in 96/97, Brazil in 97, and France in 03/04... so 1 win away from breaking this... so RSA must be beaten Saturday. The winning trot started at the semi's against Russia in Euro2008.

Villa's goal yesterday puts him over Hierro in 2nd place as Spain all-time goalscorer, with 30 goals... still 14 goals behind Raul, still numero uno in La Seleccion... but Villa has still a long time to play and catch this record up.
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