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 Pandev, Ledesma, De Silvestri...Lotito!

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Giolazio
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PostSubject: Re: Pandev, Ledesma, De Silvestri...Lotito!   Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:29 pm

I disagree 100% with Di Canio and it has nothing at all to with being pro Lotito. For too long now have the players been holding the clubs hostage. They sign a contract then 1, maybe 2 years later demand more money or demand a transfer. That's what is ruining the game. No one made them sign the contract, they did it themselves. A contract is legally binding and they have no right to demand all these things while still under contract. Would any of us behave like that at our jobs?

So yes, I would like to nail selfish and greedy players to the bench so that football can maybe return to the way it was before money became everything. Hold players hostage? It's always been the other way round! No player is bigger than the club!

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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Pandev, Ledesma, De Silvestri...Lotito!   Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:43 pm

Fabián Monzon, Argentine international defender, 22 years of age, Olympic gold medallist, earns 376 euro a week and turned down a 500,000 euro salary to stay at Boca and bring them trophies (it was a Ukrainian side I think, asked him how much he would want to earn, he said he didn't care).

Pandev is offered a new contract, that his representatives agree is economically acceptable and yet he still wants to leave. Lotito says a few angry words about it and now he's harming Calcio? That's disappointing from Paolo, if he said it in such definitive terms, it sort of makes him look stupid.

As Gio said, we look at Real Madrid and the Ronaldo deal and call it extreme and then we complain when Lotito doesn't pay enough money to keep people. What people like Monzon show is that love of the colours can come before any love of money. Goran negotiated a contract and decided a year later that he wanted to leave and has left us in the lurch. Too bad if we can't be strict about. Is La Lazio going to let players walk over us? Did our fans avoid Formello when we were playing badly? No, we stand firm, united and make our case heard. We can go too far at times (like Di Canio has done here with this statement, in my opinion) but it is because we care!

I don't care about money or loyalty in Calcio but I care about fairness. Pandev was offered a fair deal according to his agent and he didn't accept it, yet, he is oh so willing to stay now he sees no big clubs are after him. Why should Lotito or any laziali take that?

We deserve better. And that's nothing against the guy, he made a mistake, it happens but there's no reason for us to let his mistake affect our new season.
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Matrim
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PostSubject: Re: Pandev, Ledesma, De Silvestri...Lotito!   Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:02 pm

Di Canio condemning people for the "severity of their comments"? Priceless comedy. Hypocritical much, Paolo?

Footballers really want to have it both ways. When they suck for years their clubs cannot do anytihng but pay them their wages to the last eurocent. The minute they string a dozen decent games in a row they start making noises for a higher wage and/or saying in public they want to leave thus lowering the money the club could receive for them. It's like extortion, albeit legal, and the ones that really feel bound by the contracts are the clubs, not the players. IMO, the clubs should have the option of not paying rebellious players their full wages. If they want to leave they should inform the club leaders in private so that a transfer which would benefit both parties be arranged.
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zoran
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PostSubject: Re: Pandev, Ledesma, De Silvestri...Lotito!   Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:20 pm

I disagree with all of you 100% ...you turn things up in other way...

- and Yes! if I make to my company big profit and im excellent in my job i will ask for big raise or ill will go in other firm...
just look all Italia Cup games...its only good light Lazio think in past years, and see the Pandev contribution in that...

Lotito make Paruzzi go away from the club...also and Di Canio...instead of that he hired Tare as director beyond all many great names...that shows that Lotito likes to be like tyrant in Lazio...he like to hire stuff who will just listen to him and with no their own opinion...
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Pandev, Ledesma, De Silvestri...Lotito!   Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:40 pm

I'm not sure what your point is zoran...are you saying Lotito is forcing Pandev out?
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zoran
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PostSubject: Re: Pandev, Ledesma, De Silvestri...Lotito!   Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:47 pm

Caxi wrote:
I'm not sure what your point is zoran...are you saying Lotito is forcing Pandev out?
yes since last year and winter when he does not give to Pandev new contract he ask...
just look how much players love Lotito:
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Pandev, Ledesma, De Silvestri...Lotito!   Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:55 pm

The president is not here to be loved. He is here to do a job and gain respect, if possible.

Goran signed a contract which he is not prepared to honour. If he is unhappy with it now then he should never have signed it in the first place. I understand his reasons but I understand our presidents viewpoint also. In his shoes, I would do the same thing, in Goran's shoes, I would probably do the same thing also (if I wasn't a fan of the club I play for). It's unfortunate but that's life I'm afraid.

It's legislation such as Article 17 and the allowing of agents in the sport that is ruining Calcio. Not Lotito.
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lazio365
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PostSubject: Re: Pandev, Ledesma, De Silvestri...Lotito!   Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:13 pm

Caxi wrote:
The president is not here to be loved. He is here to do a job and gain respect, if possible.

It's legislation such as Article 17 and the allowing of agents in the sport that is ruining Calcio. Not Lotito.

Exactly, the power of the clubs with regards to contracts is dwindling, putting a lot of power in players hands, rightly or wrongly. Ultimately though, as a fan of the CLUB first and foremost I want to see us get the best out of this deal. Every player and other party is second to that, in my eyes anyway.
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zoran
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PostSubject: Re: Pandev, Ledesma, De Silvestri...Lotito!   Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:49 pm

Caxi wrote:
The president is not here to be loved. He is here to do a job and gain respect, if possible.

Goran signed a contract which he is not prepared to honour. If he is unhappy with it now then he should never have signed it in the first place. I understand his reasons but I understand our presidents viewpoint also. In his shoes, I would do the same thing, in Goran's shoes, I would probably do the same thing also (if I wasn't a fan of the club I play for). It's unfortunate but that's life I'm afraid.

It's legislation such as Article 17 and the allowing of agents in the sport that is ruining Calcio. Not Lotito.
same thinking
but im trying to say that im more at the players side...i approve Pandev, Ledesma and LDS behaviour.
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Giolazio
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PostSubject: Re: Pandev, Ledesma, De Silvestri...Lotito!   Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:36 pm

zoran wrote:
Caxi wrote:
The president is not here to be loved. He is here to do a job and gain respect, if possible.

Goran signed a contract which he is not prepared to honour. If he is unhappy with it now then he should never have signed it in the first place. I understand his reasons but I understand our presidents viewpoint also. In his shoes, I would do the same thing, in Goran's shoes, I would probably do the same thing also (if I wasn't a fan of the club I play for). It's unfortunate but that's life I'm afraid.

It's legislation such as Article 17 and the allowing of agents in the sport that is ruining Calcio. Not Lotito.
same thinking
but im trying to say that im more at the players side...i approve Pandev, Ledesma and LDS behaviour.

How can you approve? Why would you be happy with our players demamnding more money or threatening to walk out? Who wants these guys? Please rememeber how much these guys actually make in the current economic crisis before playing the poor professional footballer card. These players' behaviour is not acceptable. They signed contracts, they should have negotiated better at the time if they are unhappy now, no sympathy or even any feeling of understanding for a footballer getting paid over 750k a year for doing the thing he loves (a sport for goodness sake) anhd demanding more before a contract is set to run out.

What is the point in a contract? They mean very little these days.

(I'm not having a go at you Zoran....I'm just frustrated with how the sport is developing)

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zoran
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PostSubject: Re: Pandev, Ledesma, De Silvestri...Lotito!   Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:14 pm

everything has price this days...success must be paid...football is much more than game...
do you think that Fernando Torres doesn't love At.Madrid ?!? do you think that At.Madrid want to sell F.Torres ?!?
what about Kaka case ?!? i can't still understand what happen...
tomorrow Lotito can wake up on the left leg and can say whole team is on the transfer list...
why Zauri isn't playing, why we sell Mudingayi,...why Firmani is not in the firs 11 and we loan - all this players and many love and like to play for Lazio, but they didn't.
so im trying to say that the club or Lotito can't guarantee players future so that's why they have right for asking a better future for them and their family (material and flourishing)
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razio
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PostSubject: Re: Pandev, Ledesma, De Silvestri...Lotito!   Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:26 pm

Giolazio wrote:
zoran wrote:
Caxi wrote:
The president is not here to be loved. He is here to do a job and gain respect, if possible.

Goran signed a contract which he is not prepared to honour. If he is unhappy with it now then he should never have signed it in the first place. I understand his reasons but I understand our presidents viewpoint also. In his shoes, I would do the same thing, in Goran's shoes, I would probably do the same thing also (if I wasn't a fan of the club I play for). It's unfortunate but that's life I'm afraid.

It's legislation such as Article 17 and the allowing of agents in the sport that is ruining Calcio. Not Lotito.
same thinking
but im trying to say that im more at the players side...i approve Pandev, Ledesma and LDS behaviour.

How can you approve? Why would you be happy with our players demamnding more money or threatening to walk out? Who wants these guys? Please rememeber how much these guys actually make in the current economic crisis before playing the poor professional footballer card. These players' behaviour is not acceptable. They signed contracts, they should have negotiated better at the time if they are unhappy now, no sympathy or even any feeling of understanding for a footballer getting paid over 750k a year for doing the thing he loves (a sport for goodness sake) anhd demanding more before a contract is set to run out.

What is the point in a contract? They mean very little these days.

(I'm not having a go at you Zoran....I'm just frustrated with how the sport is developing)
Logically yeh, but it's kind of like a game, you need to play it smart. I'd say Lotito made a big mistake not tying up their contract when it's 2 years to the end, now they have the power to moan. Contract does mean something, but the game rule changes and now players have the power, we need to adapt to it. We pretty much needs to understand that supply of these talented and hard-working players that make it to serie A can't be found everywhere, just consider how many people plays football for a living (or luxury, in some cases haha). So zoran, I would agree to your viewpoint totally.
I could not approve of the Article 17 too, it's ruining loads of mid-table clubs.

Is it Lotito's fault? Partly of course, I still think he should have tied up their contracts 2 years to the end to limit their power of negotiating, but some passionate (lol) fans would say he's totally to blame, ooooooops guess this is gonna waste our precious time again lol.
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Conn
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PostSubject: Re: Pandev, Ledesma, De Silvestri...Lotito!   Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:50 pm

razio wrote:

Is it Lotito's fault? Partly of course, I still think he should have tied up their contracts 2 years to the end to limit their power of negotiating, but some passionate (lol) fans would say he's totally to blame, ooooooops guess this is gonna waste our precious time again lol.

Look, if you like provoking people you came to the wrong forum... do-you-understand or shall i make a draw?

I've already told you that I don't really want to argue here with clueless people like you. Maybe we can talk when you come to Olimpico to watch a match. But first try to learn some manner. Knowing something about lotito would be useful too.
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centrocampista
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PostSubject: Re: Pandev, Ledesma, De Silvestri...Lotito!   Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:48 am

Lotito is an egomanic who loves to be in the spotlight.
Lazio gives him this opportunity.
Lotito doesn´t know anything about football but he knows how to walk all over people and that´s why this club is falling apart.
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Giolazio
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PostSubject: Re: Pandev, Ledesma, De Silvestri...Lotito!   Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:17 am

centrocampista wrote:
Lotito is an egomanic who loves to be in the spotlight.
Lazio gives him this opportunity.

Lotito doesn´t know anything about football but he knows how to walk all over people and that´s why this club is falling apart.

That may indeed be true, but it still doesn't change the fact that if Pandev and Ledesma had been given new deals last year they could still easily be acting the same way they are now.

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Kris
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PostSubject: Re: Pandev, Ledesma, De Silvestri...Lotito!   Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:06 am

I know its important to resolve, but i am so, so, so over this issue. Its like a bad tv soap opera.
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razio
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PostSubject: Re: Pandev, Ledesma, De Silvestri...Lotito!   Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:31 am

Conn wrote:
razio wrote:

Is it Lotito's fault? Partly of course, I still think he should have tied up their contracts 2 years to the end to limit their power of negotiating, but some passionate (lol) fans would say he's totally to blame, ooooooops guess this is gonna waste our precious time again lol.

Look, if you like provoking people you came to the wrong forum... do-you-understand or shall i make a draw?

I've already told you that I don't really want to argue here with clueless people like you. Maybe we can talk when you come to Olimpico to watch a match. But first try to learn some manner. Knowing something about lotito would be useful too.
hey no hard feelings yeh? we see each other as clueless anyway. My last post consisted of 2-3 sentences and ranting and most others talking about the situation so leave it ok? lol

And GioLazio, if they did sigh a contract last year they have no such strong power, they could act like this but then we have the advantage over them, at least if we wanna sell, we get more money, and if we want a complete squad they will stay. How good would it be if the 3 players' contract is resolved last year, we don't need to go through all these.
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Kris
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PostSubject: Re: Pandev, Ledesma, De Silvestri...Lotito!   Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:41 pm

Conn wrote:
razio wrote:

Is it Lotito's fault? Partly of course, I still think he should have tied up their contracts 2 years to the end to limit their power of negotiating, but some passionate (lol) fans would say he's totally to blame, ooooooops guess this is gonna waste our precious time again lol.

Look, if you like provoking people you came to the wrong forum... do-you-understand or shall i make a draw?

I've already told you that I don't really want to argue here with clueless people like you. Maybe we can talk when you come to Olimpico to watch a match. But first try to learn some manner. Knowing something about lotito would be useful too.

Conn, its his opinion, Whether its right or wrong, you can discuss it without badgering him.


Forum • noun (pl. forums) a meeting or medium for an exchange of views.
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PostSubject: Re: Pandev, Ledesma, De Silvestri...Lotito!   Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:16 pm

Kris wrote:
I know its important to resolve, but i am so, so, so over this issue. Its like a bad tv soap opera.

+ Me. Its like when media is not discussing about this three there is no discussion at all.
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Conn
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PostSubject: Re: Pandev, Ledesma, De Silvestri...Lotito!   Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:15 pm

Kris wrote:


Conn, its his opinion, Whether its right or wrong, you can discuss it without badgering him.


Forum • noun (pl. forums) a meeting or medium for an exchange of views.

Kris, I don't know whether you are short of memory, or you have some problem with the language, or just didn't read the previous page.

I've simply shared an opinion. Then I was asked to be "a little bit open minded" by someone who proved to be clueless about many things. I've replied.

I've said countless times in this forum that I am not pretending to change the mind of anyone here. Is it clear enough? Can I express my thoughts without being accused of being narrow minded or thought how to behave in a forum? Thanks.

"Even a fool, when he holds his peace, is counted wise"
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Kris
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PostSubject: Re: Pandev, Ledesma, De Silvestri...Lotito!   Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:23 am

Conn wrote:
Kris wrote:


Conn, its his opinion, Whether its right or wrong, you can discuss it without badgering him.


Forum • noun (pl. forums) a meeting or medium for an exchange of views.

Kris, I don't know whether you are short of memory, or you have some problem with the language, or just didn't read the previous page.

I've simply shared an opinion. Then I was asked to be "a little bit open minded" by someone who proved to be clueless about many things. I've replied.

I've said countless times in this forum that I am not pretending to change the mind of anyone here. Is it clear enough? Can I express my thoughts without being accused of being narrow minded or thought how to behave in a forum? Thanks.

"Even a fool, when he holds his peace, is counted wise"

Conn, I've always respected your opinion, and genuinely believe that you are probably the most knowladgable member in this forum when it comes to the football club, however, behind all your articulate posts and sarcastic ramblings lies what can only be described as a smarta.rse attitude. All im saying, (and i believe your inteligent enough to understand that you are doing it), is to make your point without crucifying other members with your tone and making them feel embarrassed or stupid.

If i am wrong, or have offended you, i apologise. No doubt you'll let me know about it regardless.
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Conn
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PostSubject: Re: Pandev, Ledesma, De Silvestri...Lotito!   Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:35 am

Kris, I think that instead than teaching me how to behave you too should think twice before writing and judging people (at the end, who are you to say that I am a behaving as a sarcastic smart arse?).

The whole forum, and this thread to say the least, is full of posts pro-lotito. Did you see me picking each of them and attack all the authors? I don't think so, although I share a different opinion, I respect others'.

It happens, however, that I have a little problem if someone does not respect mine. I think you are intelligent enough to recognize that this has happened in the post of your protegč.

And finally, let me say that another golden rule, beside "thinking before writing", is "minding your own business". I don't really think I and razio needed a referee.
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centrocampista
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PostSubject: Re: Pandev, Ledesma, De Silvestri...Lotito!   Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:23 pm

Giolazio wrote:
centrocampista wrote:
Lotito is an egomanic who loves to be in the spotlight.
Lazio gives him this opportunity.

Lotito doesn´t know anything about football but he knows how to walk all over people and that´s why this club is falling apart.

That may indeed be true, but it still doesn't change the fact that if Pandev and Ledesma had been given new deals last year they could still easily be acting the same way they are now.

There is a difference between spending 4 years on the stands and 1 year.
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Jofo
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PostSubject: Re: Pandev, Ledesma, De Silvestri...Lotito!   Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:25 pm

OK back to the subject.

I know that Lollo has already talked to Balla and maybe will now stay.
What about Pandev and Ledesma, as Balla stated probably the best players in Auronzo training camp.
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Caxi
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PostSubject: Re: Pandev, Ledesma, De Silvestri...Lotito!   Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:39 pm

They all spoke to Ballardini on consecutive days. Lollo was the last to have a meeting with our coach. Apparently, Davide is trying to convince them all to stay. I think it may have got through to Ledesma but I'm not so sure about the others.
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